Building strong communities
When I started out, I was one of the few women in the SEO trenches. I remember joining an SEO Group on Google and realising I was literally the only female in there.
I’m beyond chuffed to see that that’s no longer the case. At a recent SEO event in Newcastle over half of the audience were women.
It’s great to see the SEO world and events trying to aim for more balanced, diverse speaker lineups. But we still have a long way to go.
I still see articles featuring the top 100 SEOS and nearly all of them are middle-aged white men (usually with beards).
Today’s guest is passionate about amplifying women’s voices in SEO, and even has an upcoming event I’ll be speaking at. Let’s get into it.
Tune in to learn:
- When Georgia got started in SEO
- What made Georgia want to focus on building a strong SEO community for women
- What has changed over the last few years in the SEO industry
- How men can help support women in SEO
- Who will be speaking at the Breaking Barriers IWD event
- What Georgia’s community do to support each other and make online marketing life easier
- What one area you should pay more attention to in your SEO
Listen to the podcast
Share the love
If you like what you’re hearing on The Recipe for SEO Success Show, support the show by taking a few seconds to leave a rating and/or comment on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Spotify. Thanks.
And big thanks to RachatShineCopy for their lovely review:
“Favorite SEO podcast. Hands down (or up), this is the best SEO pod out there. Packed with personality, laughs, learnings and listen worthy guests.”
Share the meme
Connect with Georgia Tan
- Switch Key Digital
- Georgia Tan – LinkedIn
- Women In SEO & Digital Marketing – LinkedIn
- Switch Key Digital – LinkedIn
- Breaking Barriers Event: IWD Women in Digital Marketing
About Georgia Tan
Georgia Tan is Co-founder & Head of Search at Switch Key Digital, a leading digital marketing agency specialising in Search Experience Optimisation (SXO), bridging the gap between SEO, User Experience and CRO for impactful results. A sought-after international speaker, Georgia has shared her expertise at conferences worldwide, including Digital Marketing Europe and World of Search. Passionate about education, she will launch an SXO course with Internet Marketing Gold in 2025. Georgia also champions women in the industry as organiser of Women in SEO & Digital Marketing Sydney, fostering community and growth.
Fun fact: Georgia once wrote and directed a comedy show featuring 25 cast members, performed at the iconic Seymour Centre.
Transcript
Kate Toon: When I started out, I was one of the few women in the SEO trenches. I remember joining an SEO group on Google and realizing I was literally the only female in there. I’m beyond chuffed to see that that’s no longer the case. As a recent SEO event in Newcastle, over half the audience were women. It’s great to see the SEO world and events.
Trying to aim for more balanced, diverse speaker lineups, but we still have a long way to go. I often still see articles featuring the top 100 SEOs and nearly all of them are middle aged white men, usually with beards. Well, today’s guest is passionate about amplifying women’s voices in SEO and even has an upcoming event I’ll be speaking at. Let’s get into it.
Hello, my name is Kate Toon. I’m the head chef at The Recipe for SEO Success, an online teaching hub for all things related to search engine optimization and digital marketing. And today I’m talking to Georgia Tan. Hello, Georgia.
Georgia Tan: Hi, Kate. It’s awesome to be on the show with you. I’m excited to be here.
Kate Toon: Yay! Well, let me introduce you to everybody so they know who you are. Georgia Tan is the co founder and head of search at Switch Key Digital, a leading digital marketing agency specializing in search experience optimization, or SXO. This bridges the gap between SEO, user experience, and CRO for impactful results.
A sought after international speaker, Georgia has shared her expertise at conferences worldwide, including Digital Marketing Europe and World of Search. Passionate about education, she will launch an SXO course with Internet Marketing Gold in 2025. Georgia also champions women in the industry as organizer of Women in SEO and Digital Marketing Sydney, fostering community and growth.
I got through that bio. Uh, those listening will not know that my poor editor has had to edit that about five times. That’s a lot. There’s a lot going on there, Georgia. It’s lovely to have you on the show. Um, let’s start right at the beginning. Now to me, you look very youthful, but maybe it’s because I’m a haggard old crone.
When did you get started in SEO? How long have you been in the SEO world?
Georgia Tan: Been in the SEO space for almost 10 years now. So I started off originally, actually wanting to be like a journalist coming out of uni, wanting to get into that and actually went into content writing, into internet content writing for the first time.
And that’s where I really initially learned about SEO. And then I guess, yeah, really fell in love with. The combination of the, the creativity, the data side, and actually going to make like a good impact, like with your content. It’s how I fell into SEO.
Kate Toon: Yeah. I don’t think, I don’t think many little girls grow up thinking I want to be an SEO.
Like you. I was a journalist and then a copyright. But I think what, you know, I like the SEO combines that creative side with the slightly geeky side. You know, it’s a bit of tech, UX. And I love this discipline, um, which I’ll be quite honest, I hadn’t heard of before, uh, SXO. So really bringing together conversion, user experience and SEO.
I mean, that’s like the three pinnacles, isn’t it? Bringing it all together and making it work. I was drawn in by the creativity, I think. But also. I guess what you said there that the ability to make impact because you can do a lot of writing and it can be quite soft and gentle and maybe it leads to a sale and maybe not.
But I love the fact that SEO that you can make real noticeable visible marked changes. What drew you to SEO as a discipline?
Georgia Tan: I totally agree with what you said. I think. Often with content writing, uh, I guess without the data, the measurement side, it’s kind of hard to know where the goal is, what the direction is, um, how to structure your content.
Especially now, I think it would be even harder as a new writer, being able to leverage generative AI and not having to go through writing without that. So I think with SEO, it really meant that, you know, you can do the research into what your audience wants to learn about and sort of have another framework to think more strategically about how to organize the content and really have the goal to work towards.
And then actually use analytics afterwards to measure like how successful the content was and how you can prove it. What the related topics, what the trending topics are. So, so, so many different ideas to come out of that. Yeah.
[00:05:03] Kate Toon: And I think, you know, a lot of my older, well, not necessarily older in age, but more traditional copywriters are like, Oh, you know, SEO really limits the creativity and I’m like, Oh, it’s exact opposite.
You know, you actually get a complete plan, you know, you know exactly what keywords to go after, you know, what the intent of those is, and then afterwards, you can follow up and see, you know, how long someone read the article, where they went next, what the hell they interacted, what goals they hit. To me, it’s like, it’s super satisfying because you get to see the whole picture.
Sounds like you’re the same. Now, one thing that isn’t super satisfying about the SEO industry. Is the male dominance. Now you’ve been in the industry for 10 years. I’ve been in a little bit longer than you. And I’ve seen a dramatic change over the last 10 years. The amount of women, as I said, I was at Newcastle SEO conference.
You must go Georgia. It’s really, really fun. Um, and I would say over half the room were women. Unfortunately, a lot of them came up to me and said, Oh, when I started SEO, I used to listen to you. And they made me feel very, very old. But I was really pleased that there were so many women in the room, and you’ve been a driving force for building a strong community for women.
What made you want to do that? Why did you decide to focus on that?
Georgia Tan: I think similar to what you said, um, I’ve definitely seen that the SEO industry is still quite male dominated or certain segments, like, yeah, you could go to a conference and Maybe it’s even more like, like 10 percent of women and that can be a really intimidating and I’ve also seen like how, how impactful and like how talented, like, you know, the contributions that women can bring to the SEO space to bring that diversity, different perspectives and sort of, yeah, bring out different sides to SEO. Which, which we need. Which we need now.
Kate Toon: We do. I mean, I think, you know, there’s, there’s an old myth, you know, you know, SEO is very technical and therefore only men can do it because men are more technical, which is just obviously quite ridiculous when you look at women’s contribution to, you know. The space mission and all other things, but also, you know, I think you’re right.
You know, there’s certain events that have a bit of a reputation for being very male dominated. And I think it’s often shown on the stage. I’ll tell you an embarrassing story. Georgia, I remember about 9 years ago, a very famous SEO event, which I’m not sure. Even exists anymore. The owner of it, who was well known as being a pretty horrendous person contacts me and said, will you come and speak at the conference?
And I don’t even in SEO a couple of years. I wasn’t that confident to be honest. And speaking on stage was not on my shopping list. And I was a bit nervous about it. And I said, look, you know, I’m going to, I’m going to have to decline. He said, Oh, well, don’t worry. I was only asking you so I could have a woman on the on the speaker list.
And I was like, Oh, brilliant. You know, thanks for that mate. Uh, but often you don’t, that’s the problem. It’s not just who’s in the room. It’s who’s on the stage. You know, that there’s a token woman, maybe a token person that’s not white. Um, and then the rest is middle aged white men. So I do think we still have a long way to go.
For those what changes you’ve obviously now you’ve got this great community of women that you work with. And what changes have you seen in the SEO world over the last few years in the industry? Do you think there’s been an improvement?
Georgia Tan: I think so. And I mean, I think like, like here in Australia, that that’s slowly coming along.
And I think we can, yeah, we can look towards some of the other like women in tech SEO groups and other communities abroad that I’ve done so much the community. Um, in the industry, I think that seeing how user experience has become so much more important and Google is getting so much better at understanding that the natural language and.
Thinking more about, you know, which pages does the user actually want to land on and stay on and everything. It really makes SEO a lot more holistic and complex now. So I think more than ever, we need people who think differently. The to be in SEO.
Kate Toon: Yeah, you know, I sound like I’m being super negative. There’s a lot of amazing men in the industry who absolutely champion, uh, women and promote them and have them on their stages. Um, what do you think, what role do you think men can play in helping to support women in SEO?
Georgia Tan: It’s a really great question, and I think there’s a lot that men can do as well. They can, you know, really be allies here, they can amplify women’s voices, it could be something as small as re sharing a LinkedIn post by someone they really, um, support, really respect. It could be Encouraging women to feel more confident and empowering them to share the stage going like you said, the representation on stage is quite important as well.
Otherwise, it’s hard for, uh, like younger CEOs to have a role model to look up to and feel like that’s possible for them. Um, there’s mentorship as well, and I think another really interesting one is more around, I guess, challenging. Pre existing biases that they may not know they’ve had, so that’s more like mindset and Yeah, just trying to support organizations that, uh, are looking to have that, um, inclusivity and diversity.
Kate Toon: I love that. Yeah. So I think, you know, as you said, I like the idea of mentorship and even as you said, a simple share of someone’s post can, I can do a lot and put it in front of an audience. I think as well, you know, many to speak up, you know, often I’ll see posts where it’s like here are my top favorite SEOs and they’re all male and that’s not necessarily the person’s fault. That’s just who they’re following. But I think it’s really important for other men rather than other necessarily other women to say, Hey, mate, you know, there’s some great female SEOs. You should be adding to that list. There’s some great people you should be following. You know, if you see an article for an SEO publication that has, you know, a hundred voices and what they think, and only eight of them are women, maybe, you know, challenge that and say, hey, you know, you need to do better.
Um, we need men to challenge as well and not just sit passively by, um, and let these things happen. So I love that. Thank you, Georgia. Now we’ve got an event coming up, haven’t we, which we’re pretty excited about. Talk to us about your event that you’re running.
Georgia Tan: Yes. Yes. I’m super excited. It’s going to be called breaking barriers, IWD event.
It’s going to be on Friday, March 7th on the actual IWD day, um, after work. So yes, you’ll be there. We’ve also got like a great range of experts across digital marketing. So it’s going to be, yeah, like a amazing, inspiring night to celebrate women in SEO and digital marketing. We’ve got lots of networking opportunities, like for people to learn and support each other.
Kate Toon: Will there be nibbles?
Georgia Tan: Yes, there’ll be, there’ll be nibbles, of course. , you won’t forget about the nibbles. And there’ll be drinks as well.
Kate Toon: Yeah. Fantastic. So who are the other, who other, who are the other speakers that you’ve got? You’ve got some big names. Yes,
Georgia Tan: Yes. So we’ve got Sam Saunders from SXSW. We’ve got Fleur Brown, who’s the co-founder of TEDxSydney and TechSydney coming along. So we’ve got that one panel’s gonna focus on. On growing community mentorship, supporting other women. And then we’ve also got a great opportunity, um, for SEOs, both who are independent consultants who are working in house.
So we’ve got Amanda King, uh, digital marketing consultant. We’ve got, the head of digital demand at Adobe, Maryel Roman as well.
Kate Toon: It’s a good old lineup, isn’t it?
Georgia Tan: Yes. Yeah. So we’ll have a lot of opportunity to talk about what’s working in the space, here, be a strategies. And really get across different niches, SEO, demand gen, and different industries as well. Telco, travel, publishing, yes.
Kate Toon: Fantastic. So where can people buy tickets for that, Georgia?
Georgia Tan: Yes, so we’ve got our Eventbrite link up. So if you search women in SEO and digital marketing, Sydney, or simply search Breaking Barriers, Eventbrite, it’ll definitely come up and get the links up.
Kate Toon: Good old SEO there, but we’ll include links to it in the show notes for this episode, and it would be lovely to see you there. I’m very, very excited. I’ve got another event over the other side of New South Wales in the morning, so I’m going to be tearing across and probably arrive very sweaty. So that would be something enjoyable to see.
Obviously, one of the things you’ve done is form this community for women, and also, you know, you’ve spoken at lots of events around the world. How do you feel having communities like this helps businesses, you know, especially when it comes to online marketing, you know, what do you obviously don’t just sit around nattering?
What do you do in your community that actually supports each other and make sure, you know, online marketing life easier and better?
Georgia Tan: I mean, I think, especially for digital marketing, where people often working from home, working remotely, traveling a lot, um, actually having the community to feel like part of a group where you can then discuss different ideas.
And I think SEOs tend to, uh, you know, want to just, you know, speak to themselves. So being able to come out of the shell and really get the opportunity to actually connect face to face. Talk about the challenges and and learn from each other is so important. I think.
Kate Toon: It really is and also a safe space because I must admit, you know, when I started in my SEO journey, I didn’t feel I had anywhere I could safely ask questions without someone turning around saying, you should know that call yourself an SEO.
You know, and the thing is, SEO is vast for 1 thing. There’s so many different disciplines within it. Sub disciplines within it, you know, talks about UX and CRA, but there’s international SEO, local SEO, e commerce SEO, tech SEO, you know, it’s vast and you can’t be an expert at all of it. But also sometimes you just need affirmation that your direction or strategy is right and having a group of people where you can talk about that without being kind of shamed is really, really important.
It’s something I strive for in my communities as well, a safe space where you can ask clever questions and dumb questions and not be judged. I think that’s super important. Do you?
Georgia Tan: I totally agree. Yeah. I think that having the safe space, we can, yeah, there’s no silly questions and you feel comfortable and supported.
Kate Toon: Yeah. I mean, one of the things you’re an educator and you enjoy teaching people, one of the things I love doing is, you know, passing that knowledge. On or down to the next generation of people, but also the other really important about thing about community. I think it’s being challenged because as you said, well, you know, SEOs and online markets can be quite introverted and we work on our own and you get in a little bubble or you get in a little method of doing something and you need to be challenged for someone comes along and says, Oh, you know, I do this very differently.
Or have you read this? Because again, there’s so much stuff coming out every day. I’m very lucky to have this podcast. I get to talk to people about things. But otherwise, I don’t know how I would stay on top of all the new ideas and innovation. So having a little community where you can chat through them really helps as well.
Um, Georgia, now you are a bit of a, you know, a hybrid holistic. Uh, online market with SEO, UX, you know, people listening to this podcast and mostly small business owners or marketeers, if there’s one area that, you know, maybe lending into UX that you think people should pay more attention to when it comes to SEO, what would you, what would you advise people to look at?
Georgia Tan: I’d say, especially now with all the changes, I think it’s time to really go back to basics. So the first thing I’d say is. Like, really think about, like, who you’re targeting and, like, know your target audience. Um, like, there’s no point trying to track all this SEO traffic if it’s never really gonna lead to a conversion or it’s not really targeting, like, your target customers.
So I’d say be really specific with what the strategy is. Um, yeah, do some research, build your like target personas, then you can actually think a lot more clearly about like the keywords around that, like how your landing pages need to be angled to address the struggles, your pain points.
Kate Toon: And get them to the sale, get them to the sale.
Georgia Tan: Exactly.
Kate Toon: I mean, I think this is it. There’s a lot of, you know, ranking for ranking sake, like vanity ranking, but if it’s not translating into actual money at the end of it, it’s all for nought. And I think that’s that beautiful combination of SEO and CRO comes together. SEO gets people to your door, but you’ve then got to engage them with a user friendly site, helpful content, and then lead them to the sale.
And again, you know, lots of traditional copywriters will be like conversion copy and SEO copy don’t mix. Of course they do. Of course they do. You know, I think it’s a fundamental misunderstanding of, of copywriting to think that either you’re putting keywords in or you’re converting people. It’s one and the same, you know?
Uh, so I like that connection that you make between SEO and money, uh, because you know, that’s what matters at the end of the day, isn’t it?
Georgia Tan: I totally agree with that. I think it’s, it may just seem more complicated. Like, you know, how can we do all of these things, but. Maybe you need to be doing them together with the focus on, yeah, on the conversions and the sales. Yeah.
Kate Toon: Yeah, exactly. Awesome. Well, look, I will include links to all the various bits and bobs. Um, you also run a regular SEO meetup for women as well. So we’ll include a link to that and also to your company as well. Um, Georgia, thank you so much for spending time with us today.
Georgia Tan: Thank you so much for having me.
Kate Toon: Great. Well, I’ll see you on whatever date it was. It’s in my diary. Don’t worry. I won’t forget.
Georgia Tan: Yes. So March 7th and tickets are still on sale for general admission. If anyone wants to come along from Sydney or New South Wales too.
Kate Toon: Fantastic. Awesome. Thank you, Georgia. So that’s the end of this week’s show.
If you have questions about SEO or digital marketing, head to my I love SEO group on Facebook. And if you haven’t already grabbed my ultimate SEO checklist to help you manage your site and grapple the Google beast. It’s entirely free. You can also take my SEO nibbles course as well. I like to end the show with a shout out to one of my lovely listeners.
And today is RachatShineCopy. Oh, I think I know who this is. Favorite SEO podcast, hands down or up. This is the best SEO pod out there, packed with personality, laughs, learnings, and listen worthy guests. What a beautifully written quote. Thank you, Rachel Shine Copy. And thanks to you for listening. If you like the show, we’d love a review or a rating wherever you heard you’ll help others find out about the show and learn more about the wonderful world of SEO.
As always, you can check out the show notes for this episode where there was links to that event. You can come and meet me in person, how exciting in Sydney. So I hope to see you there and until next time, happy SEOing.
