How Tim deals with haters and what he’d change about Ahrefs
So in this second part of the Tim Soulo interview, we are moving away from talking about content marketing. You can head back to the first episode hear all Tim’s amazing tips on that.
And instead we’re going to talk about the Ahrefs tools, what it does, and also some kind of sticky questions which I’m wondering if Tim is going to be comfortable answering.
We have some questions for Tim himself about what it is to be a well-known figure in the SEO industry. So this is going to be a great episode. Get your ears ready.
Tune in to learn:
- What personal skills have given Tim the edge
- How Tim deals with online abuse
- What does Ahrefs do that no other SEO software does
- Why doesn’t Ahrefs have an affiliate program
- Why Tim chose Ahrefs over any other software company
- What’s the one thing Tim would change about Ahrefs
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Transcript
So in this second part of the Tim Soulo interview, we are moving away from talking about content marketing. You can head back to the first episode hear all Tim’s amazing tips on that. And instead we’re going to talk about the Ahrefs tools, what it does, and also some kind of sticky questions which I’m wondering if Tim is going to be comfortable answering. We have some questions for Tim himself about what it is to be a well known figure in the SEO industry. So this is going to be a great episode. Get your ears ready.
Hello, my name is Kate Noon and I’m the head chef here at the Recipe for SEO Success, an online teaching hub for all things related to search engine optimization. And I love SEO. And here we have Tim, again, Hello Tim again.
Tim Soulo: Hey, Kate. How’s it going?
Kate Toon: Good. How-
Tim Soulo: The intro worked out well from the first attempt.
Kate Toon: Pretty good. How’s the beard going? Is it growing anything since we last spoke? It looks a bit longer I can see, a little bit. You’ve been really concentrating on it, I can tell. So we had an excellent first episode where we really dug deep into content marketing. We talked about updating articles, lead generation, all kinds of things. If you haven’t heard that episode then head back there and listen to that. But in this second part, I want to talk a little bit more about you as a human. I assume you are human, and also a little bit more about the tool. So are you ready? Are you ready to go?
Tim Soulo: I am.
Kate Toon: Let’s do this. Okay. So I guess the first question is from Lyndon NA (Darth Autocrat) and he asks, in your business career, what’s been the riskiest move that you’ve taken and did it pay off?
Tim Soulo: I think pretty much anything is a risky move, especially as you’re putting yourself out there with your opinion. I think it is risky all the time because always there will be someone who disagrees with you, always there will be some haters. But I think the overall riskiest move is that here at Ahrefs we don’t follow the “conventional marketing knowledge.” And it just doesn’t just come from me personally, it also comes from our CEO and founder Dmitry. He’s not a big fan of doing what other people say. He’s a fan of figuring out things himself and seeing what’s working. So for example when they tell people that we don’t have Google Analytics installed-
Kate Toon: People love that. People love that little story.
Tim Soulo: Yeah. And there are quite a few things and we’re not afraid of being open.
Kate Toon: Can I just tell you, it’s not that hard to instal. If you need some help, I’ve got a video that will help you on that in my course. But anyway, carry on, carry on.
Tim Soulo: So we’re not afraid of showing the things that we don’t do, the way we disagree with all other people in the industry. And I think it is paying off because we’re putting ourselves in a unique place. We’re putting ourselves in a place of people who don’t talk about the same things that other talk, who don’t suggest the same things that others suggest. And they think it was risky but so far, it is paying off quite nicely.
Kate Toon: That’s great. And touching on something you mentioned there about giving opinions and putting yourself out there, we touched on in the previous episode, the SEO space especially in the Twitter sphere can be quite challenging. Quite a lot of abuse, especially if you are someone who’s putting forward an opinion. Have you faced much of that, and how do you handle it?
Tim Soulo: Yeah, and people get upset about all sorts of stuff. So the other day we have nice illustration for almost each article that we publish. And the other day we were creating illustration for a topic of off page SEO, and I came up with the idea that there should be a computer standing in the centre and there should be a guy, basically a shaman with some shaman outfit running around it with some fancy things, shaking them, and making the off page stuff to make the website rank. And so we used the outfit of, I think they’re called Native Americans or Indians, and they got upset. We started getting messages on Facebook that some Native American people said that we were mocking them, mocking them by using their outfit on our guy. And we were like, we didn’t mean to insult you or anything.
It was just a fun thing to pretend that you can work on your website by just doing some magic or whatever. But we actually had to recreate that image, change that illustration to make sure that outfit of the guy who is doing magic around the computer doesn’t resemble like any culture at all. So yeah, I think you never know where the problem will come from, so you can expect anything.
Kate Toon: Have you had any kind of personal abuse? People getting personal about you as an individual rather than Ahrefs as a company?
Tim Soulo: Yeah. I was watching some hangout of some SEO guys that were discussing Ahrefs and some improvements we were making to our tool. And they were specifically discussing me and one guy said something like Tim is so dumb, I don’t know why they keep him in the company. They should fire him. The stuff he says is absolutely bananas. He doesn’t know shit about SEO and stuff. It didn’t feel good to hear that, but luckily, I’ve been following Rand Fishkin for quite a while. I actually started learning SEO from Rand Fishkin. I have a lot of respect for the guy, and I’ve seen him sharing quite a few stories of how people even like close friends were abusing him, were talking shit about him. So I figured that you cannot really consistently put yourself out there, create some work, like be publicly your opinion and not generate some haters along the way. So I figured I should just leave that.
Kate Toon: Shake it off in the words of Taylor Swift. But I think then what’s the classic line if you don’t want to be criticised then, do nothing, say nothing and be nothing. So I think that’s it and I think haters going to hate, they’re going to find something. And I just spent a couple of days with Rand at YoastCon, and even in the period that we were there the amount of negative tweets and just people getting really personal. Even if you don’t agree with the guy’s opinion, you don’t have to rip him. Geez, people are brutal. Yes, and I’ve had a fair amount of abuse myself online and I think there’s not much you can do about it. As you said, you just have to shake it off. So I’m interested to know, and this wasn’t one of the questions, how long have you been working at Ahrefs?
Tim Soulo: Almost four years now.
Kate Toon: Four years. And I guess this is a question that came in, why did you choose Ahrefs? Why did you decide that you wanted to work there?
Tim Soulo: To be honest, it was not me choosing Ahrefs, it was Ahrefs choosing me because our CEO and founder has reached out to me. And I’m not saying this in the arrogant way, I’m actually saying this in a way that I didn’t even think that I could be the chief marketing officer of Ahrefs. So it was Dmitry who saw my potential, who reached out to me and offered the position. So I would never reach out to Ahrefs and tell them, “Don’t you want me to be your head of marketing, etcetera?” So yeah, it was Dmitry’s thing. And why did I choose to like stay here, work there and invest like all my energy here is because I think we have a nice synergy with Dmitry. Dmitry is super technical person, he’s super smart like with all those coding servers crawling the entire web, saving the entire web to do our service, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. And he’s a great like a team leader. He’s a great visionary.
Kate Toon: Yeah, are you trying to get a pay rise Tim? That’s what it sounds like. We’re going to play this little bit to Dmitry afterwards. I think that’s interesting, though, and obviously they must have seen something in you. So another question that came in from Gabriel Pap, I hope I’m saying that right, @papagab, which is, what skills do you bring? What skills do you think that you learned way back that maybe didn’t seem useful at the time but have given you the competitive edge now?
Tim Soulo: This is a great transition from me talking about Dmitry.
Kate Toon: I’m just trying to stop you because it was just getting a bit much.
Tim Soulo: Like I was going to say that what I bring to the table is some understanding of the market, some understanding of the design and usability because previously I was working for a company that was creating website templates. And they’ve met a lot of great web designers, a lot of great people who work with the interfaces. So I had quite some experience with that. And basically, when I joined Ahrefs, the designer lady that that was working with Ahrefs at the time, she left because she had a baby. And she changed her career or whatever. And I had to look for designers. And because I had previous experience with designers, I actually brought on board two really amazing guys who do great job. And I already said a lot of good things about Dmitry, because now I need to say something bad, I don’t think Dmitry is good with design and I don’t think he would be able to hire those guys based on his experience.
So I feel that my experience with web design and communicating with a lot of great web designers helped me to find awesome people because again, let’s talk about Rand Fishkin again. Like he said in his book, he always had struggle to hire great chief technical officer because if you are not technical yourself, you don’t know how good is the person. Same with design, you cannot hire a great designer unless you have an understanding of design. So yeah, apart from marketing, I’m also bringing some design experience, some usability experience, and marketing is obviously my [crosstalk 00:49:17]
Kate Toon: And I think that’s it. I think I see there’s a quite a division between the tech SEOs and the contenty usability design SEOs. And something that came up very much from YoastCon was that the platforms are solving a lot of the technical issues themselves. If you’re on something like WordPress, it’s in WordPress’s best interest to get over the technical humps. And that does move us into, once the tech stuff’s sorted, I mean, it is an ongoing thing. But once it’s sorted, that you are just in the content space and that’s where the us people, they all look down on are coming up because we are the ones that can engage the audience, bring people back, design beautiful interfaces, keep people engaged, get the conversation started, build relationships, tell stories.
So you’ve made the site fast, awesome. We’re ranking, now it’s over to us. So I don’t know, I think it’s a mix of the two. And I think it’s nice that you and Dmitry have that balance between the two skill sets. I think that’s super important because it’s hard to be left and right brain or it’s pretty tricky.
So the next question is awesome. I love it. [Yemi 00:50:37] Johnson @yemi_uc wants to know what’s your most important advice about life and marketing? Let’s do life first, what’s your most important advice? Mine was pat a dog every day. What’s yours? Have you got something good like that?
Tim Soulo: I think the most important answer about life was 42 or something.
Kate Toon: 42, yeah, pop out, come on.
Tim Soulo: To be honest I don’t feel I am credible about giving life advice. But for me, I just think that I found something that I like doing, this is marketing, this is trading content, this is educating people. So I think I’m happy with my life because I’m doing these things I love. And basically, my work is also my hobby. So I don’t mind opening my Notebook and answering a few emails on weekdays, on vacation. It doesn’t feel like work to me. So I feel this is a great advice. If you’re not happy with your work, probably you’re not doing something you like and probably you should try from a hobby. Try finding a hobby that could be turned into work. I don’t suggest anyone to burn the bridges and leave their work just because they don’t like it. But try to look for things that excite you and try to make it your job.
Kate Toon: Yeah, I love that. I think I’m the same, I love what I do so it doesn’t feel like a chore. I mean, obviously some days I don’t want to come to work. And I think that carries through to marketing advice because I think what that’s about it’s being yourself, it’s a bit cheesy, being your real self, being authentic. And for me, especially in marketing, that’s my best advice in marketing. I’m building a personal brand. But even, you are kind of the face of Ahrefs to a degree and so you are the personal brands for Ahrefs. And as long as you’re authentic and honest in your marketing, then it’s so much easier to market because you’re the same person wherever you are. You’re never worried about catching out a thing you said that you didn’t really mean because everything you said is what you mean. I think that just being authentically yourself in your marketing makes life a lot easier. Do you agree?
Tim Soulo: Yeah, this is great advice, of course.
Kate Toon: Cool. And pet a dog and grow beard. So moving on from talking about Tim and Dmitry, we’re now going to talk about Ahrefs. And this is not a sales pitch, but some people had some quite tricky questions about Ahrefs. And I’m going to start with the one that annoys me Tim, okay? I’m going to say this now. There’s two things, number one, why don’t you have an affiliate programme?
Tim Soulo: Because we have a hard cap of 50 people that we want to have in entire Ahrefs team at all times and now we are at 45. And we-
Kate Toon: You mean in terms of employees?
Tim Soulo: Yeah, in terms of employees. We don’t want to go past, and this is again Dmitry’s idea. He has set this cap to stay small and lean. And we do have a kind of closed affiliate programme where we on-boarded a few of our friends. And what I realised is because I was responsible for all that, those people who are our affiliates, they have questions, they have requests, they need support they have issues, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. It takes time. So I figured out if we open it to the public, we’ll have to actually hire not one but many people to support our affiliates. And especially if you want to scale your affiliate programme, you have to be proactive with it. You cannot just hope for people to sign up for affiliate programme and magically make sales.
You have to help them, you have to educate them, you have to create, I don’t know, media materials, pictures, banners, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, do special offers and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So because we need to stay small and efficient, we have to give up on some things, and affiliate programme is one of those things that we are giving up in favour of doing more and better on other things like content marketing for example.
Kate Toon: Yeah, Look, I love that and although I asked that in a kind of aggressive way, I don’t have an affiliate programme for any of my courses. And the other thing that I’d say is a huge plus in that is that when people recommend my courses, you know that they’re not getting money for it. And for me that transparencies is huge because especially in the online course space, some of the big courses, people are getting $1,000 per affiliate sign up. How am I going to believe your credible review there? So that’s a really important part of it. And having an affiliate programme is a pain in the bottom. So we’ll let you off that one. The next one, which again, asked a lot of people is, why don’t you have a free trial? You used to have a 14 day free trial, then you signed up. Now you’ve got the seven days for $7. What was the thinking behind that?
Tim Soulo: Well, it’s obvious that when you give full access to your product for a week or two, a lot of people will have used that free access. So we didn’t like that. We didn’t like how many people were abusing our trial. So we decided to make it paid. But the second thing is that again, because we want to stay small and lean, because we charge $7 to try our tool for seven days, we get less leads, but the quality of these leads is way higher. Plus whenever you pay for something, even if that is just like $7, I think breakfast in Singapore costs $7 so it’s not much, you get invested. You get invested to trying this thing. You want to get this $7 of value back from whatever you paid $7 for. So people are more interested to dig in the tool with those seven days that they have. And yeah, I think it works nicely for us. And actually Dmitry recently asked me if we should charge even more because we think that our tool set becomes better so we provide more value so probably we should start charging more for our trial. But so far I-
Kate Toon: $7 in seven days has a nice ring to it though, I don’t know. Again, I have a similar model with mine. I have a pay after you do my freebie, there’s a almost like a pay lead gen because attitude is if someone’s not going to pay $50 for this course, they’re never going to pay what it takes for the big course. They’re just going to take your free stuff, your free stuff and as you said, take it and never do it. I think the next question now and I do think this is a valid one is on price point which I did say I was going to grill you. Who is your target audience because people who are like freelancers, copywriters, web designers, start up SEO consultants, your tools, it’s just too expensive to be honest. And especially because often people already have one of the other tools which we shall not mention.
But again, who do you see as your target audience?
Tim Soulo: So I’m going to answer in a way where a lot of people would grill me and a lot of people would say like in there, I don’t know, conversations that Tim is the guy who doesn’t know anything about marketing, but we don’t really have any customer personas. Every marketing book will tell you that you cannot have everyone is your customer. We do have everyone as our customer. As long as you have a website and as long as you have a goal of growing traffic from Google to your website, you are our customer. And in terms of price point, Ahrefs starts at $99 per month with a $7 trial. If you’re not ready to invest $100 per month in your business website, then it’s not a business. What kind of-
Kate Toon: Gosh, I think that’s a bit high. It’s $1200 a year, which is a lot because when you think about something like Zero, which is the financial software, which is essential to running, something like Zero, MYOB which is like 40 bucks a month, it’s a lot.
Tim Soulo: Yeah, but here’s a caveat, you don’t have to subscribe to Ahrefs for an entire year. You can subscribe for one or two months and you can get enough value that will keep your going for half a year after this. So if you’re a small business and you don’t have a lot of money to invest, buy just one month, download everything, download all the data. Do all the keyword research, do all the content research, all the competitor research. And then you’ll have enough data, enough insights and takeaways to work on the website for a year. And then-
Kate Toon: I agree. I used to do that with the 14 day trial though Tim and now I can’t. Now I have to pay bloody $7. Now I get you, I get you. For most small businesses once they’ve pulled down keyword reports, competitor backlink reports, all that kind of stuff, there is enough there to keep you going. Realistically if you’re spending two or three hours a week on your SEO and digital marketing, it’ll keep you going for a long, long time.
Tim Soulo: Yes. And then once you grow and once you employ full time marketers, you’ll see that if you’re paying, I don’t know, two, three, four thousand dollars to employ an in house marketer, can’t you just add $100 more to give your full time marketer an amazing marketing tool?
Kate Toon: Well, I’ve grilled you. I’ve asked the question people. People will probably say you didn’t grill him hard enough but there you go, that’s the justification. So I think it makes sense. I’ll let you off.
Tim Soulo: Yeah, of course.
Kate Toon: Okay, so some specific questions about the tool, Eric Covino @ericcovino1 wants to know, when will the new keyword to allow for exporting?
Tim Soulo: Yeah, it allows exporting already. I think it is a little bit limited because in previous version, we allowed you to export the keywords along with the top ranking pages. So I think right now we have released export without the top ranking pages, but we are going to bring back all the functionality that we have within the next few weeks. So yeah, export is already available and we’ll improve it within the next few weeks.
Kate Toon: And the next question is from Trevor Cherawaka I hope I’m saying that right. He says he loves the new keyword explorer, the version three data. Regarding Amazon, we all know how much Jeff Bezos loves his site being scraped. How accurate are those search results?
Tim Soulo: Yeah, I’m not sure what exactly he’s referring to. But in terms of Amazon data, we get it from clickstream the same way we get data for YouTube and Google. And clickstream is, whenever you install all sorts of mostly free Chrome extension or softwares on your computer that do something you want them to do for free, they also have those terms and conditions where they say that in exchange for providing your service, they will collect some your personal data, anonymize it, which means they detach it from your personality. And then they have the right to resell it to other companies. So there are companies who buy this data from a lot of different browser plugins, etcetera, etcetera. And basically, these companies have data on what people are searching for, on what websites people are visiting, and what kind of searches they do in Google, YouTube, Amazon. So we buy these data in bulk so we know the actual searches that people perform in Amazon.
As for accuracy of this data, I cannot tell you the exact accuracy because Amazon doesn’t publish their exact numbers of how many people search for, I don’t know, iPhone cases. If Amazon would go out and publish an article with some of their top searches and the exact search volume, we would compare it to our data and how we calculate it and tell you, okay, you’re accurate to this extent or to that extent. But because Amazon doesn’t give you this data, Ahrefs is the only source I think.
Kate Toon: Okay. So the next question is around the reporting module. So Nigel McHugh, I am Nigel McHugh asks, and when will there be a white label reporting module for the site auditor, so you can pull the reports up and run branded with your own branding?
Tim Soulo: Yeah, this is a great question. We are working on it. I don’t have the estimated time that we’re going to release it. I’d say that it can be released by the end of this year, but don’t take my word for it. If you’re looking for a tool that will generate well playable reports, don’t sign up for Ahrefs and wait for it. You’re not going to like me for that promise.
Kate Toon: I mean, these questions are interesting in terms of getting feedback on the tool and people wanting different tweaks and changes. What forum do you have for that at the moment? Where can people go say, hey, look, I hate the way that this button looks on page seven? Is there a forum for that?
Tim Soulo: Yeah. First of all, I think that I’m incredibly available. So I’m on Twitter so people can just tweet at me whatever they like or dislike. They can email me because my email is public pretty much everywhere. I’m not hiding it, it’s like super easy to find it. Then we have a Facebook group for all our customers where we have continuous discussions about things they like, things they dislike, the questions they have, etcetera, etcetera. And finally, we of course, any other tool, we have support, support chat. We use Intercom for that, that’s a great software, where you can also like give us any feedback. And finally, we also use a cool software called Canny.io. This is basically a forum board for leaving your feedback and uploading feedback of others and discussing it, leaving comments etcetera, etcetera.
So we have a variety of ways of how we keep track of what our customers are requesting from us, what they want and then just for us to prioritise what is easy to do, what is hard to do, what will work for us in the long run, etcetera, etcetera. So there are many factors that will determine if we’re going to release this feature or not, or how soon we’re going to release it compared to all other features.
Kate Toon: Okay, well great. I’ll include a link to that Facebook group in the show notes for this episode.
Tim Soulo: No, don’t, please don’t.
Kate Toon: Why not?
Tim Soulo: It is not a public group. It is for customers only. So only if you become Ahrefs customer, we’ll send you a link to that group.
Kate Toon: Okay. Well I won’t-
Tim Soulo: It is a privilege to be in our group.
Kate Toon: Oh my goodness, so exclusive. Well, I won’t then. Next question is from David [inaudible 01:04:45], and he asks for example, you got a new job tomorrow, a new rank tracker, new to market, no USP, operates in English only, you get a budget of $15,000 to increase paid sign ups. Where do you spend the money and why?
Tim Soulo: $15,000?
Kate Toon: Yeah.
Tim Soulo: That’s a nice budget. So first of all I would go and purchase Ahrefs subscription because I clearly can’t budget for this right now. Yeah, but I would actually do the things that we discussed in the first episode. That is, find what people are searching for in relation to rank tracker. The guy said that’s a rank tracker software. Yeah, so I would search for topics that people are interested around the tracking their performance in Google. I would create articles around that. I will try to make those articles rank. And yeah as we discussed in terms of guest blogging, I would do a lot of guest blogging to connect with different industry influencers, post on their website, mention my rank tracker tool on their website, funnel some traffic. So yeah, I would basically do content marketing. And I don’t think I would even use the budget because when I came to Ahrefs, I was the single marketing person in the entire team. And I was just working myself, I was doing it all myself.
And it worked for quite a while till I felt the need to hire a first person. And we didn’t do any ads, so we didn’t really have any like budget to spend. Probably you might want to employ a writer who will help you to create those great articles, or probably you might want to employ a web designer who will help you design like beautiful pages, beautiful graphics, etcetera, etcetera. But overall I think if you’re a full time marketer you don’t even really need the budget. You can do a lot of stuff just with your time and effort.
Kate Toon: Okay, great. And look who we are, we finally made it to the final question for the episode. Are you ready?
Tim Soulo: Yes.
Kate Toon: I guess it’s a good one, Adam Gent from @Adoubleagent asks, if you could change one thing about Ahrefs, what would it be?
Tim Soulo: Wow, this is a super, super tricky question. I hope Dmitry is not listening to this interview.
Kate Toon: But he will be because you flattered him, so come on, you want that pay rise.
Tim Soulo: So I think I would change the on-boarding experience. I think on-boarding is something that most companies overlook because it is rare that people who are working at a certain company would go and sign up for their own software to go through all the steps that people have to take. So I feel that we haven’t revisited our on-boarding experience in quite a while and I have a to-do item on my list to revisit our on-boarding experience and improve it. And I’m putting this for later because of how many bells and whistles are there, how many things we have to consider to make it better than we have. So yeah, I would love to change how we onboard people, how we show them around our interface. I think this is one of the things that we are overlooking right now.
Kate Toon: Great, that’s nice and honest. And I think it’s one of those things that you build these on-boarding systems, I have them for my course, and then you kind of merrily carry on. And as you say, you sometimes need to go back and sign up yourself and go, oh my God, why are we still talking about that? We haven’t had that in the tool for ages. But it’s hard to keep track of everything, even when you have a team and a budget and you’re doing it full time. So imagine how hard it is for small businesses who’ve got like an hour a week. So Tim, look, that was fantastic. Thank you so much for your time. Sorry I grilled you a little bit.
Tim Soulo: No, no problem. It was fun. I think it’s more entertainment for listeners.
Kate Toon: Yes, exactly. Exactly. And look, if you’ve enjoyed this week’s show, and you have questions about Ahrefs or questions for Tim, you can head to my I Love SEO group on Facebook, or as we’ve said, head to the show notes for this episode, where you’ll find links to Tim’s twitter, his Instagram, his everything so you can ask him lots of questions. I’d like to end the show with a shout out to one of my lovely listeners. And this week it’s [Marika Hermans 01:08:57] in Berlin. And she says, “I was very happy this morning to see a new podcast. I’ve been listening to older ones just to fill the void. No seriously, I love your no nonsense, very practical and to the point approach to SEO. I’m a newbie and it helps me so much to learn about these big SEO topics step by step. I totally agree that you should do more podcast with just little old you. Some of the guests are great, but some are not very enlightening, even if they were big names in the field. So keep up the good work. I’m a big fan.” I didn’t read that testimonial before I put it in. So she’s not referring to you, Tim. You are awesome. You are enlightening.
Kate Toon: No, I’ll take it as grilling me, it’s okay.
Tim Soulo: Okay. Thanks to you for listening. If you like the show, please don’t forget to leave a five star rating or review and review on iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you heard the pod. Your review will help others find the show and learn more about the lovely world of search engine optimization, and you’ll get a shout out on the show. As I said, don’t forget the show notes for this episode at www.therecipeforseosuccess.com. And also, don’t forget to listen to my two other podcasts, The Hot Copy podcast, a podcast for copywriters, all about copywriting, and the Confessions of a Misfit Entrepreneur podcast. So thank you, Tim.
Tim Soulo: Thank you.
Kate Toon: And until next time, happy SEOing.
