Using science to align your brand with your business goals and boost your bank balance.
What do you think about when you think about brand?
A sexy colour palette, logo, a particularly snazzy font?
Obviously, branding is way more than that.
But it’s amazing how much the colours, or logos we use can impact how our customers see us.
And of course, there’s actually a psychology behind branding that uses science to match your brand, to your business goals, and your mindset.
And if you get strategic about your brand, it can of course build a bulging bank balance.
So today we’re straying slightly away from the SEO path to talk about brand psychology.
Tune in to learn:
- What brand psychology is
- How to use science to make your brand more appealing
- How your brainpower and senses impact your brand and business
- How multiple senses can be used in marketing
- Why it’s vital to be consistent in your branding
- How science influence the colours and fonts in your brand
- Lisa’s top tips on branding
Listen to the podcast
Sponsor love
If you’re looking to improve your SEO reporting, you should try Supermetrics.
With Supermetrics, you can:
📈 Pull all the SEO data you need into a single report — whether it’s Google Sheets, Excel, or Google Data Studio
📈 Automate keyword research, content audits, and more
📈 Set triggered email alerts to stay informed when a keyword’s position changes
Start your free 14-day Supermetrics trial.
Share the love
If you like what you’re hearing on The Recipe for SEO Success Show, support the show by taking a few seconds to leave a rating and/or comment on iTunes, SoundCloud, Spotify, or Stitcher. Thanks!
And big thanks to our rubbish5366 for their lovely review:
“Winner winner vegan dinner
Hands down this is the best podcast for getting your head around all things SEO.
Full of top titbits and juicy goodness to help you climb the Google charts.
Thank you thank you!! “
Share the meme
About Lisa Galea
She is fascinated by human behaviour and by combining her knowledge in creative thinking, marketing, and mindset, she collaborates with entrepreneurs and SMD, guiding them on how to thrive in an ever-changing environment.
Through coaching, speaking and workshops, she helps people shift their thinking and solve big picture problems.
Weird fact: Lisa Galea’s nose twitches every time she blinks.
Connect with Lisa
Useful Resources
- Online colour wheel
- Brand Sense by Martin Lindstrom – Sensory Branding
- The Choice Factory by Richard Shotton – Behavioural Psychology for Branding & Marketing
- Thinking, Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman – How our Brain works
- The Relationship Between Personality Type and Color Preference For Color Combinations
by Lynessa Rico, Ph.D. The Chicago School of Professional Psychology
Transcript
Kate Toon:
This episode of the Recipe for SEO Success is proudly supported by Supermetrics.
Building an SEO report from scratch takes hours of manual work. A large chunk of that time goes to copy/pasting data from Google Analytics, Google Search Console, and SEMrush.
Supermetrics helps you automate the boring part of SEO reporting and focus on what matters: analyzing the number, optimizing your performance, and coming up with new ideas.
You can start your free 14-day Supermetrics trial at Supermetrics
Kate Toon:
What do you think about when you think about brand? A sexy colour palette? A Logo? Or a particularly snazzy font? Obviously, branding is way more than that. But it’s amazing how much the colours, or logos we use can impact how our customers see us. And of course, there’s actually a psychology behind branding that uses science to match your brand, to your business goals, and your mindset. And if you get strategic about your brand, it can of course build a bulging bank balance. So today we’re straying slightly away from the SEO path to talk about brand psychology. Hello, my name is Kate Toon, and I’m the head chef at the Recipe for SEO Success, an online teaching hub for all things related to search engine optimization and digital marketing. And today I’m talking with the wonderful, the lovely, Lisa Galea. Hello, Lisa. How are you?
Lisa Galea:
Hello, Kate. Thanks for inviting me on the show.
Kate Toon:
Lisa just did a big wave. Little does she know that none of you can see us waving, because this is a Podcast. So I should have a wave sound effect from now on. But anyway, Lisa is awesome and I’m going to awkwardly read out her bio now. You ready Lisa? Now she nodded. You have to yes.
Lisa Galea:
Yes, I am. Bring it on.
Kate Toon:
It just shows how much of a visual person she is. It’s audio. Lisa is a powerhouse of knowledge, and experience when it comes to all things, design, branding and marketing. She is fascinated by human behaviour, and by combining her knowledge in creative thinking, marketing and mindset. She collaborates with entrepreneurs and SMD, I don’t know what SMD is, I’ll find out in a minute, guiding them on how to thrive in an ever-changing environment. Through coaching, speaking, and workshops, Lisa helps people shift their thinking, and solve big picture problems. And a weird fact is that Lisa’s nose twitches every time she blinks. That’s a cool, weird flag. But I’ve got to ask first, what’s an SMD?
Lisa Galea:
I think that’s a typo because it’s a small to medium business.
Kate Toon:
SMB, there we go. That makes a bit more sense. Jolly good. Righty-ho, so the nose twitching every time you blink, how do you know that? Can you blink for me? I’m not seeing it because it’s-
Lisa Galea:
It’s on either side. Unfortunately, my little brother noticed it when I was younger.
Kate Toon:
There you go.
Lisa Galea:
Once you notice it, you can’t not see it. It’s one of those things.
Kate Toon:
That’s it. This is why you shouldn’t tell people. And now you told everybody on this Podcast. Whoever meets you, it’s just going to be constantly looking at your nose.
Lisa Galea:
That’s true.
Kate Toon:
But it’s a beautiful nose. Let’s get stuck in to the topic today. And we do occasionally stray away from core SEO, people, because you can’t talk about SEO all day. And obviously part of SEO really is your brand, your personal brands, it’s obviously the first thing that people are going to see when they hit your homepage, is all that brands environment, so it matters. It’s part of the overall journey. SEO is everywhere. It’s not just keywords and back links. But for those people who haven’t heard this term before, can you explain to me what brand psychology is?
Lisa Galea:
Well, brand psychology is really based on behavioural science, which is the study of humans behaviour, and why they do things. So really the study of human decision-making. So actually looking why people are making these decisions, instead of asking them.
Kate Toon:
So it’s using science to get better branding results. But what does that mean in the day to day? It’s red, it’s blue, where does the science come in? Explain to me how I bring the science in.
Lisa Galea:
Well, I’ve been really studying how the human brain works for a long time. And really we’ve got an overwhelm of advertising, marketing clutter. If you just imagine going into a supermarket, your subconscious brain is making all the decisions. So studying how they’re making those decisions, and when that’s happening is now. Definitely in the last 10, 15 years, they’ve been able to see what’s happening in the brain. They know seven seconds before you do what one you’re going to choose off the shelf. So the colours, and fonts make a huge impact on people’s decision-making.
Kate Toon:
It’s scary, isn’t it? That we’re being manipulated in this way. And I guess some of us will know some of these things. We’ll be aware that for some reason, all the banks tend to use bluey colours, unless they’re trying to be a progressive brand, and then it’s suddenly orange. And that’s how we show that we’re cool. And we know that medical companies tend to either go with blue, or red, and environmental it tends to be green. What is the psychology of colours? I know there’s that wheel of colour that we talk about, but in a broad spectrum, what do the different colours mean to people?
Lisa Galea:
Colour is a really massive subject. It’s almost like the Zodiac, because everyone’s affected by the colours in different ways, and they might even see in their brain by how they’ve been affected and what situation they [inaudible 00:07:19] that colour. But I think there’s been a lot of studies done, one by a lady called Lynessa and she has studied the saturation of colour makes a huge impact on people. So if you are doing a website, having that full strength is almost shouting. So using those shades and tones of colours is really important to make people feel comfortable. The colour shouldn’t stand out more than the message.
Kate Toon:
I like that. I Haven’t heard that one before the gradients of colour, and transparency have an influence. Because, I think often from an SEO point of view and a UX point of view, we come at websites and look at them more for like contrast, these faded out colours. While they’re gentler on the eye, and maybe not so shouty, or actually difficult for contrast it’s a battle, isn’t it? Between making using colour on your site in a way that’s inviting, but also usable.
Lisa Galea:
100%, you really always are testing, but keeping things in the background subtle, so your message is clear instead of the colour, or the font, especially. Font’s one of my favourite things, but something like Garamond has been around for 500 years. That’s a pretty strong message associated with it. I like to think a bit like body language for your words. It gives a message like your face does when you’re speaking, there’s so much added to just the word by using a different font.
Kate Toon:
We’ll get into fonts. I’m straight from the path of our questions, because I’m interested in this topic and whatever’s popping in my brain I’m going to ask you. So getting back to colours, I was talking there about the banks and the whatever. Can you give the audience a broad spectrum of which colours are suitable for different types of brands? When should they be using green? When should they be using blue? Or is it not as straightforward as that.
Lisa Galea:
I wouldn’t say it’s as straightforward as that. I would definitely say, get curious and look in your industry, what the leaders are doing? What are other people doing? And then, like you said, if you want to be thought of, use that to your advantage, use the same colour. So people say, oh, I can tell they’re a bank because they’re using blue. Or if you want to prove a point of difference, pop out with the orange or purple, we’re a different kind of bank. There’s so many different ways to take advantage of it.
Kate Toon:
But I guess you have to get back to your values and your message before you do that. Maybe we can include a link to that colour wheel that I’m banging on about in the show notes, so people can go and have a look, and they match it back to brand attributes. If you want to be trustworthy, if you want to be professional, if you want to be playful. So it all comes back to understanding those brand values as well. And one of the things I know that a lot of people do is they just pick their favourite colour. So their favourite colour is purple. And so everything’s purple. What are your thoughts on that? Should you be coming at it from your end? Or from a customer perspective?
Lisa Galea:
I would say definitely from a customer perspective, unless it’s a personal brand.
Kate Toon:
Then you can be more-
Lisa Galea:
And you can be a bit more, this is my favourite colour and show that side of you. But if you are selling directly to the customer, I’d be looking at what colour do they like? What colour you like? I will put a link as well to the Lynessa Rico report study, because she’s studied colour combinations with personality types. So that’s interesting because she’s combined the two and there’s not that many studies. Unfortunately, I think when you do the SEO and check the amount of studies, there’s about the same amount of studies on colour, compared to studies on men’s underpants.
Kate Toon:
There you go. Well, men’s underpants it’s a very important topic. You raised an interesting point there as well about colour combinations. We all hear the line red and green should not be seen, and all these ideas around what colours work well with each other. And the idea that you have a core colour, and then a pop colour, a contrasting colour for your call to actions. And I think one thing that, it’s why you’ve got a job, and why you’ll continue to have a job is everyone thinks they’ve got great dress sense, and a good sense of humour. And everyone thinks that they can pick a good colour palette, and they know what looks good. But often people don’t have a good eye for colour, do they?
Lisa Galea:
No, I think it’s something you learn, and there’s a lot information in studying those palettes and studying that colour wheel is really needed. As anything, the more knowledge you have on it. It’s not about, like we’re saying lots of people do just, oh, I like that colour. There’s no reason for the colour. Look for a reason when you’re choosing something.
Kate Toon:
Well, as you mentioned I think the difference between a professional is that maybe they’re not being subjective about it, or maybe they are being subjective. I’m getting my words mixed up. We just go from how we feel about it, whereas a designer will come in and say, well, actually you got to use purple and green. It’s not going to work because blah, blah, blah. If you’ve got a bit yellow copy on top of orange thing, it’s not going to work because the contrast is blah, blah, blah. And that argument, that rational argument is what you need to maybe take back to your boss, or to your partner, or to whomever, to go look, it’s not just about what you like, it’s about what actually is going to work on the page. So colours are a really interesting one.
Kate Toon:
And then we’re going to move into, we’re going to talk about font and we’ve got a few other questions that I’ve forgotten to ask, so I’ll come back to that as well. Fonts, now you mentioned Garamond being around for 500 years, I love that. I’m a big fan of Arial. Love me some Arial Helvetica. And I’m a big fan of Sans Serif, I hate to Serif font. Quickly explain to people what the difference between Sans Serif and Serif font is for those who don’t know.
Lisa Galea:
Well Sans Serif is without the little tail bits on the end. So when you think of newspaper print Times Roman, it’s got those little decorative bits on the end, and something which means without Sans Serif. So without the little decorative, is the Helvetica, the Arial, the Gill Sans.
Kate Toon:
And are there any broad rules that you think about Sans Serif and Serif? Do you think there’s a general Sans Serif are for these type of businesses? Or again, is it more complex than that?
Lisa Galea:
It is more complex. I think with fonts it’s a bit less complex than with colour for me personally. I think if you are a lawyer that Serif adds a high level of trust. When they’ve tested if they’ve put exams in you, a C goes to a B minus, if they use Georgia or Garamond. So it does have that intelligent effect on it. So I often say keep all of them in your toolbox. Have your main brand, but you can add those in, especially with social media, or testimonials, then I would add in like a Serif. And I personally like, I prefer that modernism.
Kate Toon:
I do too. I like the openness of a Sans Serif font. And we can go even further when we talk about leading, and kerning, and the spacing between the letters, and how you add just that little bit too space and it actually messes with the cognitive processing of digesting the copy. Again, and often copywriters have such battles with designers because we want the copy to be laid out a certain way from a reading point of view. And then the designer wants to lay it out from a certain way, from an aesthetic point of view. How do you meet that battle between legibility and prettiness? Do you know what I mean? Or designess if that’s even a phrase, do you know what I mean? It’s compromise, isn’t it?
Lisa Galea:
I think it’s compromise. I think that’s why we have user experience designers now who combine that to find out how is that experience? Which I think if you’re a team working together, I love working copywriters. So it’s a team thing, and working out what one’s going to get the best result.
Kate Toon:
And you work very closely with copywriters right from the start of the project. So it’s not like you design the site and then you’re shoehorning their copy in. Equally it’s not like the copy is all written, and then the design just has to map that out, like colour it in. It’s a very collaborative process. And when I worked in agency, we were always working in teams of designers, and copywriters, and bouncing ideas back and forth. It was very iterative process. And while there are information architects and UX designers coming up with wire frames and structures, there’s still the role of the designer to then turn that into something that works. You can grid out something to the end of the grid.
Kate Toon:
I do this with my designer, Sue, I’ll do a beautiful wire frame, not beautiful, I scribble it on a pad. And I’m always amazed how she interprets that into a design. So, we’re talking about science here, but there is a little bit of magic there as well, I’m going to say, I do think there’s a little bit of magic. And you were going to talk to us about more of the science and I’ve sidetracked us a little bit, because you were going to talk about-
Lisa Galea:
It is magic, I think it’s alchemy. It’s almost like science is one and one equals three. That’s when you’ve done a great job, as a copy- especially if we’re working in the advertising agency. It should just be like, there it is. It’s meant to make that magic. That’s what we’re talking about when you make a good brand.
Kate Toon:
And often you ‘bleugh’ it out and come up with something amazing and almost you backwards analyse why does that work? Sometimes you’re just able to produce something that just works and you’re not even sure why. And then you go back through that scientific process and go, well it’s because the font works, what’s this about? So sometimes it just pops out as it does with good copy. And at the moment I’m working on some keyword research for a coffee brand that I’m working on. It’s so mathematical, so scientific of comparing volume, and cost per click. And then at the end of all of that, you go, but that one just feels like the right keyword. So it’s like you said, alchemy, I love that. But you’re going to talk to us about brain power, and the power of the senses. What was the point that you were going to make there? How are senses involved in this whole brand psychology world?
Lisa Galea:
Well, I think the more I’m fascinated by the brain and how it works, really it’s working, and just like battery there’s connections happening all the time, just more than you could ever imagine as the most powerful machine that’s going on in the background. So those senses are making those connections. So every time it sees your brand, if there’s a smell, it will put that little, I like to think of it like root system that’s just constantly growing like a tree, and we want that root system to get strong with our brand. And the more we interrupt the senses, the stronger we can build those connections.
Kate Toon:
So you talked about smell there, do we have to incorporate smell as well into our brand? How do we do that, Lisa?
Lisa Galea:
Well, smell-o-vision would just take over the world if we could invent it. But I think you can think out the box where your packaging when it arrives. If you’re a digital website sending something out like that can open the box. They’re like, Oh, I love that. Even sending baskets of muffins to a company, the smell of the muffins, they can associate, oh, that happy feeling-
Kate Toon:
I love that.
Lisa Galea:
With your brand.
Kate Toon:
I know you do packaging and physical design is something that you’re really passionate about as well. And Lisa does lots of clubhouse rooms talking about this, but I think this is a great question for your listeners. If your brand was a smell, what would it smell like? And I’d like to think, I’d love my brand to have a muffin smell, but with just a touch of cinnamon or something. What would your brand smell like, Lisa?
Lisa Galea:
Well, I think it’d have a bit of spicy, definitely. It wouldn’t be that sweet.
Kate Toon:
Maybe I’d like to think it would be fresh cut grass, or freshly baked bread, but it would probably be something much more sinister than that, but the smell of Gin and Tonic in the morning. No, I’m joking. So that’s we’re talking about the senses, and obviously we’re more focused on the visual senses. But can you think of an example of a brand that is using all of the senses, that really does evoke that sensuality?
Lisa Galea:
Well, one of my favourite brands is Disney and I’m been a bit of a crazy Mickey Mouse fan, but that is a brand that just invokes all of them. With lots of the big brands, especially the car manufacturers would have the car smell put in. Even with Starbucks. It’s the colour, the comfort of every time we know when we go into a Starbucks, it smells the same, it looks the same, it feels comfortable. And that’s really, and what we’re talking about with people’s brandings, bring that into your system if you can in small ways.
Kate Toon:
I really like that. You talked then about the sameness of Disney and Starbucks, which wherever you go, you get the same experience, same with an Apple shop, same with a Mini showroom. Well, how important is sameness in branding and consistency in branding? Because I feel that that’s something that a lot of brands get very wrong, especially small businesses. They’re one thing on their website, they’re are a different thing on Instagram, they’re are different thing on LinkedIn. How important is consistency do you think?
Lisa Galea:
Consistency is key. I think it’s one of the most important things. I think a great example if you said who’s the best burger maker in the world? And we know it’s not McDonald’s, but that’s the first one that comes to mind. But we know we get a consistent crappiness throughout the world. No, whatever, we get a consistent level of standard. So if I’m deciding, do I go to a restaurant that might give me food poison, I’m not sure if I like the food. Sometimes I’ll be like, yeah, I’m happy just to pay for McDonald’s because I know I’m getting, what I’m getting is consistent everywhere. That’s a very strong brand. It doesn’t have to be consistent luxury, but don’t confuse people. That’s what I’d say these small businesses do is, when they go from your website to meet you there isn’t that consistency.
Kate Toon:
Because, I guess, part of the psychology of branding is making, as you said, making people feel comfortable, making people feel safe. So not constantly pulling the rug out from underneath them, and confusing them with different messages, and different colours, and different images that make you go, is this the same one? Is this the same brand? And I love the McDonald’s analogy because it’s the classic thing, tourists abroad, they hit Japan, they could go to all these amazing restaurants, but they go straight to McDonald’s because they know what they’re going to get. And another little thing I heard the other day was, you know why kids don’t like things like fruit and vegetables, as much as they like things like bread and rusks, it’s because they always taste the same. The packaged processed food always tastes the same. And yet you can get a blueberry that sweeter, or a blueberry that’s bitter. And kids are very tuned into that, but I think as adults we are as well. We crave consistency, but then the flip side of that, Lisa, is how do we not become dull, and repetitive in our branding and our marketing?
Lisa Galea:
Well, I think that’s it. It’s like we do want consistency, but we also then, if we find the perfect hairstyle and everyone’s like boom we’re into this hairstyle, it evolves and change. Because as humans we also want surprise, the delight at the same time. So you don’t get surprise and delight with consistency. So that is the battle that you have. It’s always a see-saw.
Kate Toon:
It is. It is.
Kate Toon:
Keyword research, content audits, and gap analysis are important for SEO success, but they’re boring and time-consuming as hell. Doing the same steps over and over again is not fun at all.
That’s why I love Supermetrics. With Supermetrics, I can easily pull data from Google Analytics and SEMrush to Google Sheets for content auditing. Once I have all the data in one place, it’s easy to see which posts I should update or remove.
Here’s the best part: I just need to build the report once, and Supermetrics will update all my data automatically — an absolute lifesaver.
And we’ve got a special prize for you! — a Google Search Console reporting template for Google Data Studio. This template will help you analyse your website’s search queries, most popular landing pages and branded vs. non-branded keywords performance. So grab it for free at Supermetrics.
I want to leave the audience with some more really useful takeouts to take away. So say for example, I’m a new brand and I’m thinking about my core values and I’m coming through a graphic designer and I’m saying, build me a brand. What questions would you be asking them, to put together that colour palette? To make the choices about the font and the logo? What questions would you be asking a new business?
Lisa Galea:
I would be asking who their customer was. That would be key for me to find out if they really knew who their customer was. I would then be exploring in the industry, what colours are being used, what fonts are being used. And I would also be looking if I was a new business, what methods are working? How are they selling things? What wording are they using? So that’s why I think with SEO, you have a huge advantage to bring it back to your customers, that you actually can see those customer touch points. You often can track where they’re landing on the website, what decisions they’re making. Can you send out a personal letter at some point, if they get to this certain point in the website? And really connect with your customers that way. It’s a really great advantage, I love SEO for that. It just gives you all this insight into the customer audience, even who your competition is.
Kate Toon:
I think, and an important thing that you mentioned at the beginning is do you want to be part of the landscape? Or do you want to be a challenger brand? So do you want to, as I said, I’m working with this coffee brand at the moment. Every coffee site looks the same, a lot of browns, a lot of coffee machines, and beans falling over tables. And it’s like, do you want to be part of that gang? Or do you want to be a challenger brand that does something completely different? And what are the consequences of that? Do you want to abandon the colour palette that they’re using, abandon the hipster vibe, and go with something completely different? And that’s a decision to make right at the beginning, isn’t it?
Lisa Galea:
Yeah, I think we do want to stand out, and that’s why taking the same is the safe option, and it’s not always the correct option. But interestingly, I’m dealing with a nootropic coffee at the moment, looking at the branding on that. And he’s very much, I want to stand out from the crowd and he’s very definite on colours. And honestly, I think he would scare people. There’s a balance on that too. It turned into energy drink, Mad Max craziness. And I’m like, this just doesn’t look natural. It looks like a red bull, crazy drinks. And I was like, you’ve gone too far. It is finding that balance, but you do want to stand out because otherwise it’s a blur of coffee.
Kate Toon:
It is a blur. There’s nothing wrong with the blur of coffee, I’ll say that. I think something else that occurs to me before we wrap up the episode is when you get to sites where they’re just doing too much, they’re colour palette is too broad. So you can’t really tell what their main colour is, they’ve got different colour call to actions, different colour headlines, becomes almost rainbow effects. And then the fonts man, the fonts, because we’re using often using WordPress themes that have different fonts in the nav and then a different font for the admin nav, then a font for the H one, a font for the H two. And you’re overwhelmed by fonts. And as you said, it actually starts interfering with the message. Are you somebody that believes a brand should have two or three colours? Two or three core fonts? What’s your approach there?
Lisa Galea:
100%, I think keep it simple. I think that’s what throws people. People don’t realise that’s why they feel uncomfortable.
Kate Toon:
That’s it.
Lisa Galea:
And bouncing but you don’t realise, there’s no space here. I went to one the other day, had 13 different fonts, I gave up counting. I was just like, that’s why it’s uncomfortable.
Kate Toon:
And they might look similar to you, to the naked eye, but they’re not similar. So people would be like, no, that’s the same font. And I’ll look at the backend and go, no, they’re very similar. I get you. They’re very similar. They’re slightly different. And as you said, it’s a slight, it feels just unnerving. And you’re not sure why, you can’t put your finger on why that site feels fussy, and messy, and it’s often to do with the fonts.
Lisa Galea:
Yes, and also their colour. I’m the same, I’m switching on some Instagram feeds, they kill me, but there’s no space or colours. But I think if you don’t, you’re allowed to use a lot of colours if you know what you’re doing. That’s what I think it comes down to, if you’re unsure, like I said, stick to one and use tone and shades of it. You will have a lot more success, and then just have the contrast colour for your buttons.
Kate Toon:
Love that.
Lisa Galea:
That’s what I would do for people who don’t know what they’re doing.
Kate Toon:
Yes, or hire somebody who does know what they’re doing. And finally, I think another thing that’s interesting when it comes to the brand psychology and the impact of brand is trends. So we see different trends coming through. Now I remember about maybe five years ago when Brush font was the go, everything was in Brush font. And by that, I mean it looks like it’s being brushed with a paint brush. Everything was dream big. And you can always tell when something’s massively on trend because K-Mart will mass produce it and sell it. So all these brands that have mugs with dream big, and therefore, the issue with that, it’s like a brand new kitchen. Do you go with something super contemporary, and know that in five years time it’s going to be completely dated? Or do you go with something classic? You go with your shaker kitchen. I don’t know why I’m bringing kitchens into it. So that’s a challenge as well, isn’t it, Lisa? Because do you be totally contemporary? Or do you pick something that’s timeless? Or is designed by its very nature not timeless?
Lisa Galea:
I believe your brand logo should be timeless. For me there’s only about 20 fonts you need to worry about looking at. The trend should be using social media. The trends can be used in marketing campaigns, so you’re on trend. But you think of Nike, even more you’ll notice, so many companies are simplifying, because their logos got to work in so many different places, not just for the animated, it’s got to be on a website, we want to print it somewhere. So it’s keep it simple and clean. And then have additional colours and fonts you can use in social that are on trend.
Kate Toon:
I love that. And I think if you are consistent with your brand, your logo specifically for a long period of time, then you can play with it a little bit when it’s established. Nike, will, my son just got a t-shirt the other day, and it’s not the classic Nike takes with the tick, it’s a jigidy basketball version with the Nike all messed up. But it works, because it’s Nike and I’m so used to the normal brand that, that strange is good. But when you are starting out, you need to bang the same drum for a long time. And I totally agree with you, keeping it simple and the limited number of fonts. And don’t necessarily wack in a creature, or a subtitle, or a squiggle, or a swoosh, or anything, don’t add that squirrel to your logo. Sure, use the squirrel on social media, but don’t add it to your logo. Do you agree?
Lisa Galea:
I totally agree. I think, even for our brain that’s what we want. Because all of those little connections are growing and growing, and the simpler the messages, the clearer we’re telling our customers what to do. The fonts and colour should be supporting the message. not overwhelming the message.
Kate Toon:
Sorry, I keep on saying the final point, but I keep on thinking about other things. I know that when I came up with my logo for the Recipe for SEO Success, don’t laugh at me, Lisa, but I did make it in PowerPoint because I was just starting out. And then I remember getting my Kate Toon logo done and being like, what is just words in colours and thinking it was too simple. And now I get it because that logo has lasted me for 13 years, the simplicity has paid off. I know a lot of people are turning to Canva now to create logos and content. But there’s something that I had recently is if you do that, and you use one of their templates, you don’t actually own that logo to some degree. It’s Canva’s. You know what I mean? It’s not uniquely yours clearly because other people can use it. What are your thoughts on DIY with tools like Canva?
Lisa Galea:
I think DIY, when you get to get started. Especially when you don’t really know who your customer is and you not 100% sure on what you’re doing, so you haven’t got that research to make decisions on. But long-term, if you are building a brand, building it and not on Canva or using a template is going to give you a lot more ownership and uniqueness, I would say then. But just starting off, if you just write it in clean words, with a Sans Serif font that’s one of the classics, my Instagram you’ll find one, that would do the job till you are… Because your products and services, I think start building the brand when you start.
Kate Toon:
Well, this is it. People, I think overstress sometimes about their branding, especially when they’re starting out. Yes, you need a logo. Yes, you need a colour palette as Lisa suggested. One core colour with gradients, and a pop colour. Yes, you need fonts as Lisa suggested, couple, maybe three max. And after that, you go forth, and your brand is everything. It’s every word you say, every photo you share, it’s all cohesive, but it does come back to that. And I think there’s nothing wrong with getting a brand refresh now and again, and just tweaking it a little bit in the same family. Don’t go as far as Google have and just change all your icons, so they all look exactly the same, but it’s an interesting topic. Lisa, I know that you talk about this a lot on your Instagram, a lot on LinkedIn as well. Where’s the best place to find out more about you?
Lisa Galea:
Well, LinkedIn is where I get social and tell everyone to get physical with their branding. Instagram is a great place to DM me or you can visit my website, lisagalea.com.
Kate Toon:
Fantastic, and I’m really going to work on thinking about what my brand would smell like. I often do, if my brand was a movie star who would play it, I think that’s a good one to ask. But what your brand would smell, I think is a really lovely way of thinking about it, evoking those other senses. And what would it feel like? Maybe that’s getting a bit too pervy. I’m not sure.
Lisa Galea:
I’m talking to a perfume maker at the moment, because I’m excited about, I’d love to have my own perfume. That’s the creativity I’m looking for. Just some excitement of spicy. So I’m like that’s something cool.
Kate Toon:
That’s our next project, Lisa. We’re going to have our own signature sense. Latoon, I’ll get you to do the packaging design. Sounds great. Lisa, thank you so much for coming on and talking to us today about your top topic. Lisa is a member of the Digital Masterchefs and she’s always banging on about fonts and it’s a fascinating topic. And I think something that we just often take for granted when we see a site that’s done well, we can’t quite, as we said, put a finger on why, but hopefully today has given you some ideas around why some sites and branding works for you and others, just jars and makes you feel itchy like Lisa and I. Lisa, thank you so much for joining me today.
Lisa Galea:
Thank you so much for having me Kate. Always be kind and curious, then just keep embracing the adventure.
Kate Toon:
Love it. So that’s the end of this week show. If you have questions about the science of brand psychology, colour, fonts or anything else, then head to my I love SEO group on Facebook. Lisa Galea is also a member, so she’ll be happy to answer any questions you might have. And as you know, I’d like to end the show with a shout outs to one of my lovely listeners. Today it’s, Rubbish 3366 from Australia. Winner, winner, vegan dinner, hands down. This is the best Podcast for getting your head around all things SEO, full of top titbits and juicy goodness to help you climb the Google charts. Thank you.
Kate Toon:
Thank you, Rubbish 3366, and thanks to you for listening. If you like the show, you know the drill, you can leave a five-star rating and review on iTunes, Stitcher, Spotify, or wherever you heard the show, and you’ll get a shout out. You can head to the Recipe for SEO Success, where we’re going to share show notes. Also, Lisa has got some good books she’s going to recommend that colour wheel diagram, the psychology report she mentions. And if you haven’t already do go and check out the Kate Toon show, I really hope to be releasing a new series too soon, series three, but there’s lots of episodes to catch up on if you haven’t listened already. So we’ll be returning to the well-worn path of SEO in our next episode, but I hope you enjoyed this little branding adventure until next time. Happy SEOing.
