It’s not just business, it’s personal
In my Reality SEO episodes, I like to focus on real humans grappling with the Google beast.
Yes, I get lots of marketing professionals, copywriters, and web developers passing through my slippery funnel of courses and resources, but I also get noobs.
Or those who, while they may know how to run a successful business, have studiously avoided dealing with SEO.
This week I’m talking to Jo Violeta, a marketing manager for her award-winning brokerage, and the host for her home improvement and property podcast.
Jo co-owns Violeta Finance with her husband, a successful mortgage brokerage that really understands family, community, and small businesses.
Today we’re talking about how Jo markets her business, the tactics and techniques she uses, and the challenges she faces.
Jo Violeta is the marketing manager for Violeta Finance, an award-winning mortgage brokerage she owns with her husband Carl.
Jo also hosts the Dream Home Movement, a podcast about home improvement and property.
Jo’s hobbies include wearing a dressing gown, watching Netflix and reading personal development books about creating good habits, and being an amazing person and then not following any of that advice.
Jo thinks people who can take their hands off the handlebars when they ride a bike are amazing. She’s honestly in awe of them.
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And big thanks to Bianx61 for their lovely review:
“Informational and inspirational.
Kate, First of all, thank you! Your podcast has taught me so much and has been an inspiration for me as I make a career change to one centered around SEO.
I have listened to most of your episodes more than once. The episodes have served as a way to check my knowledge and add to it.
You are fun and serve the information in a humorous way. I really appreciate the way you are yourself and you don’t put yourself in a box.
Thank you for teaching me and making me laugh, you are an inspiration!”
Connect with Jo
Kate Toon: In my Reality SEO episodes, I like to focus on real humans grappling with the Google beast. And yes, I get lots of marketing professionals, copywriters, web developers, pastoring through my slippery funnel of courses and resources. But I also get digital marketing loops or those who while they may have been running a successful business, have studiously avoided dealing with SEO. And this week I’m talking to one of them, Jo Violeta, a marketing manager for her award-winning brokerage and the host of a home improvement and property podcast. Jo co-owns Violeta Finance with her husband, Carl, a successful mortgage brokerage that understands family, community, and small business. Today, we’re talking about how Jo markets her business, the tactics, and techniques she uses. And the challenges she faces.
Hello, my name is Kate Toon. I’m the head chef at the Recipe for SEO Success, an online teaching hub for all things related to search engine optimization and digital marketing. And today I’m talking, as I said, with Jo Violeta. Hello.
Jo Violeta: Hi, how are you?
Kate Toon: I’m very good. We both have other humans in our office and we’re both desperately hoping that they’re not going to burp or sniffle, so if you hear a burp or a sniffle, blame the other people. It’s not us, is it?
Jo Violeta: No, it’s not us. No, we’re very good.
Kate Toon: We’re very dignified and glamorous.
Jo Violeta: Yes.
Kate Toon: So I’m going to read out your bio now and you can just sit there and look pretty, okay?
Jo Violeta: I can’t remember what I wrote in that. I wrote a special one.
Kate Toon: Jo was a dancer on a cruise ship before… No, I’m joking. Jo is a marketing manager for Violeta… We’ve already said this. We’ve already said it. So we know what you do. You work as a marketing manager for your own mortgage brokerage, which is called Violeta Finance, which is a fabulous company. I love your little quirky bits here. Jo’s hobbies include wearing a dressing gown, watching Netflix, and reading personal development books about creating good habits and being an amazing person, and then not following any of that advice. Jo thinks people who can take their hands off the handlebars when they ride a bike are amazing, she’s honestly in awe of them. Jo, I love that. That makes you sound like a real human.
Jo Violeta: Well, I am.
Kate Toon: That makes you sound really real.
Jo Violeta: I am a human, I’m not a finance robot.
Kate Toon: No, I know, I love that. And I think that we’re going to talk a little bit about that today, about how you’ve humanised your business, which I think has been amazing. But what I’d like to do is go right back to the start of your journey and your journey with me. What was happening with Violeta Finance? You were marketing it. What were you doing back then? And it was probably a couple of years ago when I first came across you, I think.
Jo Violeta: Yeah, I didn’t intend to be the marketing person for our business. I was on maternity leave when we started the business, because that’s what you do isn’t it, when you have a baby, you start a new business, and you move house, and all that sort of stuff, because why not? And we started the business and Carl was looking after the marketing himself, that’s my husband, so we’re a husband and wife team, and he posted one very unfortunate post on Facebook. And it was him and some cricketer. Now I don’t know cricketers’ names. Gilchrist, I don’t know, someone.
Kate Toon: Someone called Bernard or something.
Jo Violeta: Yeah.
Kate Toon: I always call them something like that.
Jo Violeta: Alan. And they’re standing in front of a sign and the sign says team player, but Carl accidentally positioned himself in front of the P and then he posted that on our Facebook business page. And from that post on, I said, “Look, do you know what? I’m going to take over the marketing.”
Kate Toon: I think that’s actually quite inspired. Did it get a good reaction?
Jo Violeta: Not really, no. But actually, a few years later I wrote a post about it and that got a lot of engagement so that was good. And all we were really doing when we started out was social media. So Facebook, really that’s it, and just getting really involved in our local community. So Carl goes out to primary schools and he talks to kids about financial literacy and that sort of stuff, so it was real grassroots marketing that we did initially.
Kate Toon: Yeah. And I’ve always liked that about your business, that you are very community-focused and that’s something that you’ve carried on even now that you’re getting bigger and you’re doing more things. But you, obviously, came along, you did the SEO course and started focusing on SEO and you’re also a member of the Digital Masterchef, so now you’re looking at all different digital channels. For you at the moment, what digital marketing channels are working best for you? Which ones are you finding you’re getting the most traction on?
Jo Violeta: Facebook and our website, our SEO definitely, and I’m starting to see traction through Instagram as well, but that’s more around collaborations with other businesses, so connecting with other businesses and meeting their audiences. But it took quite a while for me to jump on the SEO train. I was really intimidated initially, and I don’t reckon I’m the only person who feels like that. I was really intimidated. I actually thought that you needed to be an IT genius or a web developer, or you needed to have done some degree in computer… I don’t even know if there is a degree in computers, but I’m none of those things. So I just thought it’s not for me, I felt like it was something that was out of my reach, even though I feel like I’m a reasonably intelligent person, I’m a good student, that’s one of my strengths, but I felt like that is one thing, Jo, that it’s not for you.
And I wish I had have known earlier that it is actually something that is in my reach and I don’t need to be a computer genius to be able to manage my own SEO. So as much traction as we got from social media and all that sort of stuff in the initial years, I think we would’ve got a lot more traction if we had have, yeah, dealt with our SEO earlier.
Kate Toon: And you were a good student, I remember. I can always tell the good students because they really dive in, and they ask a lot of questions, and they dig deep. One of the things that was a challenge for us when we were working together straight away was that you’re in mortgage brokerage, which is possibly one of the most competitive fields there is. You’re not going to get much traction going after Home Loan Australia or something like that. So we, very early on, talked a lot about building a personal brand for you and getting the name Violeta Finance on people’s lips and in their minds so that you were first to mind. And I think you’ve done a really great job of getting that personal brand out there.
What are some of the techniques that you use to build that personal brand online, especially on Instagram? I’ve seen some great posts and videos and things there.
Jo Violeta: Oh, thank you. Video has been really massive. And we started doing video very, very early and actually by we, I mean, Carl. I’ve only really started doing video recently because you’ve encouraged me to do that and that’s actually been really good. So thanks for that. But yeah, video. So we started years ago and at the time, we didn’t even have a tripod. So Carl was just holding a phone up in front of his face and just doing these sometimes awkward… sorry, Carl, he’s sitting opposite me. Sometimes these really quite awkward videos.
Kate Toon: There’s a thing that men of a certain age do when they hold an iPhone, they always hold it down here so you can see all their nose hair, and all their… And it’s like, “Just move it up in front of your face or a bit above so you don’t…” But all men do it, it’s a real sweeping generalisation, but it’s true, I’m putting it out there.
But the thing is what I like though is that you just started. You didn’t wait until you had the perfect lighting kit and everything was scripted and there is something, and this is a big lesson to everybody out there, that when you first start making videos, no one’s watching them, you have to make a few bad ones. God, if you saw the first one I made, wretched. I’ll dig it out at some point and show it to you, you’ll laugh. But just getting started and I think the first people who watch our videos your videos are going to be friends, family, existing clients who are going to be quite forgiving and just be glad that you’re turning up, and then you get better and better. Do you find that?
Jo Violeta: Absolutely. And do you know what? It’s actually quite endearing to not be perfect. He was delivering really great information in those videos, really helpful information. It showcased that he knows his stuff, but for us, it was about let’s show that you know your stuff, but let’s also show people the dude who’s going to be coming around to their house to sit at their kitchen table. And they’re going to need to admit all the credit cards that they’ve run-up, or the things that they purchased, or why their savings aren’t quite up to scratch, so they need to feel comfortable. And we just felt like video was the way to show who he was and that he’s just a normal guy, he’s not a stuffy, scary guy, you can invite him around to your house and you’ll be fine. And we actually got really good results from those videos.
And now we’ve got better equipment and that sort of stuff, but they’re still DIY. And I think that’s been really big for building a personal brand. I like going live or else I overthink things and I’ve found that has been really good for my recognition and, of course, the podcast as well.
Kate Toon: Yep. I think there’s a few things I want to pull out of there. First of all, the importance of showing the person behind the business. It’s really something I wish more tradies would do as well. You’re going to be inviting this electrician into your house and especially… I would say that generally, it’s maybe more likely to be the female of the family that’s again, sweeping, sexist, generalisation, that’s booking this person to come into their home and most of their websites when you look up tradies, don’t even have a picture of the person, don’t even have a video. And you want to feel comfortable. And as you said, a mortgage broker, you have to lay everything out, it’s quite embarrassing, as you said. So I think that that’s really important, I wanted to bring that up.
And then I think, remember we had a discussion about, “Well, what do I say? Carl’s the expert, he’s the mortgage broker, he can talk about anything. What could I possibly bring to the table?” And I said to you, “You’re the everyman. You’re the us.” And there’s really good value in getting your perspective on what’s happening because even although Carl does make things super relatable, it’s still a bit of a reach. And what I love about your content is that you make it totally accessible to normal humans as well. Do you know what I mean? You’re always a bit of a translator and I think that’s worked really well. And how have you built up your confidence to go live and to keep putting your voice out there?
Jo Violeta: Well, built up my confidence. All right, look, to be honest, ever since I was a kid I’ve just loved having an audience.
Kate Toon: You can be extroverted and in front of an audience and still have impostor syndrome.
Jo Violeta: Yes.
Kate Toon: You still feel like, “People aren’t going to think I know what I’m talking about. People don’t want to hear from me.” Do you know what I mean? It’s different, isn’t it?
Jo Violeta: Yeah, I get it. Because my dad’s a ballroom dancing instructor and he wanted to be a comedian, so he’s very out there, and I think I caught that gene. But I get what you’re saying now. I was really suffering from imposter syndrome because I’m like, “I’m not a mortgage broker. I’m not a qualified anything to do with finance. Who am I to talk about that?” And it really was having that conversation with yourself. So thank you for that around, just as you said, you are the translator. So I really feel like I can empathise with how our clients are feeling because I feel the same way. And to be able to write our content and design our marketing, I have to do a lot of research and I have to wrap my head around stuff that I don’t understand. And so when I decode that I can bring people along on that journey, cheesy word, with me.
Kate Toon: No, it’s so true. It’s not cheesy, it’s so important because I often feel that I’m a bit of a translator for the SEO industry. No, I am not doing cutting edge research into schema, but most people who do that kind of research, they produce brilliant results, but they’re not that accessible for the average person who’s not an SEO consultant. And yet we need to know how to implement it even on a basic level so there’s definitely a role for that.
The other thing I love that you and Carl do is you do talk about your relationship and the fact that you’re a couple in business, which has its own challenges, believe me, I know. And I love that you do that. Was that a conscious decision to do that? Or is it just evolved?
Jo Violeta: Yeah, it’s just evolved because we’re quite opposite in that I’m very comfortable behind a mic, in front of a camera, and Carl, he just wants to help people with their home loans and their property investment loans and that sort of thing. He doesn’t want to be a media person. And so I really had to push him into doing the videos initially. And I just felt like, “Do you know what? People need to see this,” because this is hilarious that he is this tormented person who just has me pushing him to do all these things that he doesn’t necessarily want to do, and maybe sneaking up behind him or beside him to sneakily take photos of him for our Instagram stories and that sort of thing. We actually had some people start a hashtag for him, #saveCarl, which was kind of unfair, but also-
Kate Toon: Oh, fantastic. I love it. I love that you’re so cruel to him, but it’s brilliant. You’re becoming like… I was going to try and think of a famous couple, like the Posh and Becks of mortgage… I’m joking, that’s awful. But I love your posting and I’m actually a client of yours and I think it’s interesting to talk about the journey that I took. Obviously, became aware of you, didn’t need you till I needed you. And that’s the difficult thing with having something that’s quite niche and quite specific to a time. It’s not like, say, Belinda Austin in our group who sells wine. I always need wine.
Jo Violeta: We all need Belinda.
Kate Toon: Yeah. But by the time I came to making a decision about getting a mortgage, you were just so… I couldn’t even, it wasn’t that you were top of mind, I couldn’t even think of anybody else. Your brand had obliterated everybody else out of my consciousness. And I think you’ve done a great job as well of that because you’ve worked really hard on creating great lead magnets and checklists. And as you said, translating complex news, and application processes into downloadables, and then you’ve got this quite cool funnel when new things come out all the time. And the other thing I love is that something’s happening in the news, and I don’t really get it, like the Royal Bank of whatever is doing this, and I’m like, “So?” And you go, “No, this means this,” and that’s been really powerful as well. So talk us through a few of your lead magnets and sales funnels and things that you’ve done to try and attract that top of funnel human into your world.
Jo Violeta: Okay. Well, we’ve got the, obviously, social media, and the videos, and the podcast, and that sort of stuff. So that’s very, very top of funnel, isn’t it? It’s just trying to build some awareness. And then we’ve got a property investment checklist. So it’s a getting started checklist for people that have never invested in property but they want to buy their first investment property, and they just don’t know where to start. Because I feel like buying investment property is kind of like SEO, people love to talk about it and everyone knows it’s important and can really help you, but it feels really terrifying. And the people that have the information, I feel, tend to over-complicate it and use lots of terms and things and whatever that they don’t need to. It doesn’t have to be that complicated, let’s just strip away all the fluff.
Kate Toon: I so agree. And also the conflicting advice about what you should… It’s like CEO in that there’s jargon, there’s lots of conflicting advice. And then people crack on about how there’s a secret, and there’s a methodology, and a pathway, like, “I know the secret to amazing property investment.” You’re like, “Oh.” And then one of the things I loved about your checklist and also talking to Carl person is it’s pretty straight. There’s a process, of course, you have to do this, then this, and you can’t do that until you’ve done this, but there’s no magic juju.
And he’s super transparent, it’s like, “I’m not going to find some amazing mortgage that you probably couldn’t find yourself with a lot of research and whatever, but I just know it better.” And I think that transparency not pretending to be something you’re not, is something that you’ve done a good job of as well. And people get scared that if they give their knowledge out through checklists and things that they’re going to give away too much of their IP or their knowledge. How have you felt about that? You don’t care about that?
Jo Violeta: Oh no, absolutely not. We want to help as many people as possible and some people just want to DIY stuff, and so let them DIY, and I hope everything will be all right, and I hope our resources will help them. But we can give people all the information but, no offence, they can’t do it as well as what Carl is going to do it for them because it’s going to be efficient for one thing. And also, yes, you can do it yourself, it would be copious amounts of research. But lenders, for example, they change their lender policies weekly. Now how can you be across that? You know what I could… I know some stuff about my car. Not really, but let’s just say I did. And I could learn, I suppose, how to tighten the… This was a terrible example-
Kate Toon: No, I know what you mean tighten the sprocket or whatever.
Jo Violeta: … spark plug. Yeah.
Kate Toon: I use the car example all the time. I think I know what you’re going to say. But you at the end of the day, a mechanic works with cars every day, understands the ins and outs. It’s the same model that I have and I think it’s a real encouragement to people listening, that giving away this, that, and the other, you’ll never run out of stuff. If you know your stuff really, really well. You’ll never run out of ideas because there’s always new things happening, there’s always new ways of approaching it. And yes, there will be people who come along, download all your stuff, listen to all your, and never purchase from you. Good on them.
Jo Violeta: It’s fine.
Kate Toon: But even those people who you might think, “Well, that’s a bit nefarious,” what they do end up being is advocates for you. So I have people in my big I Love SEO group who’ve been in there for two, three years, never bought anything, but I see them in other groups tagging me when someone says, “Do you know about SEO?” So it all… The good karma does come back, sometimes not from the people you think it will come back from as well. It’s interesting, isn’t it?
Jo Violeta: Absolutely. We’ve definitely found that as well. So people that aren’t necessarily clients, perhaps they used to work in a bank and so they don’t need us, they’ve got connections, and they know what they’re doing, but they will actually refer us to other people. So I think share the knowledge, it positions you as an expert. Why wouldn’t you want to be positioned as an expert?
Kate Toon: I so agree. We’ve completely gone off track. We’re supposed to be talking about SEO, but we’re not really, we’re talking about digital marketing as well.
So we’ve talked about a lot of different things. Lead magnets, turning up, personal branding, video, and obviously, SEO as well, which has been great for getting people to your site. But I guess looking at all of this, looking back two years since we started being in each other’s orbit, how has digital marketing changed your business? Hopefully, a bit more profitable. Hopefully, you’ve got more clients. But how has it changed it for you?
Jo Violeta: Definitely more profitable, definitely more clients. But what I’ve found is two things. That the right type of client, not being rude, but the right type of client, clients that Carl enjoys working with because it’s Carl who has the contact with the clients. And clients that he enjoys working with and they’re the type of people who will refer their friends and family to us as well. So that’s been really important. But then also… I’ve forgotten the second thing and it was really good. The right type of client…
Kate Toon: But I was going to say from an outside-
Jo Violeta: Oh. Yeah.
Kate Toon: … looking in, I’m going to give you one, you can give me your one in a minute.
Jo Violeta: All right, okay.
Kate Toon: From the outside looking in, I feel like you’re enjoying your digital marketing a lot more. I felt it was more relaxed and you’re not overthinking every post that you put up. And you’re taking the approach that, “I’ll put this up. Some things will fly, some things won’t.” You can look at all the analytics in the world but sometimes we just don’t know which posts are going to go off. And sometimes it’s not the useful ones, it’s the ones of me and Carl as a baby. It’s crazy, isn’t it? You put all this effort and thought into producing this well thought out, full of statistics post, no one reads it. Then you put a little quick tip out, people love it. So yeah, that’s what I’ve noticed.
Jo Violeta: Yeah, okay. That’s a really good point. I have become more relaxed about my… There’s definitely strategy behind it, but allowing ourselves to be more human, really, really trusting that what I’m doing will work. And some of the discussions you and I have had around copy and humanising the way that I write, making sure it’s really conversational, letting my personality come through, that has made a huge difference.
I think what we’re noticing, this is my second point, but it really aligns with what you said, is it’s not just about attracting more people and attracting the right people, it’s really shortening the conversion. So when someone contacts Carl, they’re not rate shopping. That’s a term that we use in the mortgage industry of people that go to several different mortgage brokers and several different brands, and they’re just looking for the lowest interest rate. They’re not rate shopping, they’re not mortgage broker shopping, they want to work with him. So even though he’s great at sales, converting customers himself when he meets them because he’s lovely, that job’s already done for him because they’ve really gotten to know us. And we’ve probably repelled a lot of people as well, but the ones that we’ve attracted, they really want to work with us because we’re their people, they can relate to us.
Kate Toon: Yeah. It’s such a relief. And we talk about this a lot in Digital Masterchefs that marketing’s as much about repelling as attracting. But it takes a degree of confidence and bravery to get to that point, that you won’t be for everybody, that you could be much more formal, much more vanilla, and yes, you might get more people, but I don’t think they’d be invested, and they might not actually convert. They’ll follow you, they’ll like you, you’ll have more followers than likers, but will it actually translate into real customers? I love that.
Well, we keep these episodes relatively short and sweet, so let’s wrap up with your number one digital marketing tip for listeners today.
Jo Violeta: Okay. I had so many, but I picked one that’s kind of controversial, I might lose some friends.
Kate Toon: Okay.
Jo Violeta: You ready?
Kate Toon: Let’s go.
Jo Violeta: It is to choose your people very carefully. Choose who you’re going to get your SEO and your marketing advice from very carefully. And for me, what’s worked is to keep that group of people quite small. When I was researching SEO a few years back, like I said before, I found a lot of the information was way too technical, or it was way too simple. People were just talking about just keywords and it’s like, “Okay, cool. But how? How do I do that?” No one spoke about how you actually need a technically sound website and all of that sort of thing. So choose to get your advice and your support from people who have a track record, but also people who are going to align with your business.
This is where I’m going to lose friends, yeah. So in my industry, maybe it’s other industries as well, I don’t know, but the mortgage brokering industry does tend to attract what I see, in my perspective, quite cheesy marketers, giving us cheesy marketing advice. I was talking to one of my girlfriends yesterday, who is a mortgage broker, and she said, “Yeah, mortgage brokering marketers are like America in the ’80s.” And I was like, “Yes, that’s the perfect way to sum it up.”
So when I started marketing before I met you, I had a lot of people giving me advice to do things that just felt really ick to me, and were quite aggressive, and I got a lot of feedback around how Carl and I were too casual, too human, not corporate enough, not conveying the required amount of gravitas for finance. And I pushed back against that, that just didn’t sound right to me. So I went with my gut and since I found you and a few other peers that are like-minded, I’ve really seen my marketing improve because I’ve had the right advice from the right people. So choose your people carefully.
Kate Toon: I love that. And I think as you’re talking in my mind, I can see the web pages, the websites of some of the more cheesy marketers, the shiny suits, the big teeth, the big font, 17 different fonts, and a book about how to… It’s that classic, cheesy, it’s real estate, it’s mortgage brokers, it’s that whole genre. And you do stand out from that and it’s not going to be for everybody. But I think one of the things we do often when we start our marketing is we look at our peers, we look who’s out there, and we try and emulate. And it takes a lot of bravery to go, “You know what? That might be working for them but it just doesn’t sit with me. I can’t be that person.” And it’s exhausting to be something that you’re not, really exhausting.
Look, Jo, I have loved talking to you. People, I think you definitely want to go and check out your Instagram and everything. So where can people find you and learn a bit more about you and Carl?
Jo Violeta: Okay, well, you can go to our website, which is… well, we don’t say it correctly, you say it correctly. You say Violeta, we say Vialeta, that’s not the credit pronunciation but we’ve been doing that now-
Kate Toon: Sorry.
Jo Violeta: No, no, you’re right, we’re wrong. But we’re stuck with it now because that’s how we’ve been saying it. So you can go to our website Violeta Finance. It’s just got one T, so V-I-O-L-E-T-A finance.com.au. And same thing, VioletaFinance on Instagram and Facebook as well. Come and say hi, send me a DM, that’s what all the cool people on Instagram say, they say, “Send me a DM.” I don’t know what you’re DM’ing me about.
Kate Toon: Isn’t it, “Slide into my DM’s”? Or something rude.
Jo Violeta: I think that’s rude, but slide on in, do a G-rated slide.
Kate Toon: My son is in the office with me, he just said it is. I think it is, I think it’s like Netflix and chill, which old people think sounds… That sounds nice, how cosy, just chill and watch Netflix.
Jo Violeta: Put a blanket on.
Kate Toon: … sounds very different apparently, so we’re obviously a bit old school. You know you pronounce my second name Taune but no one does, and I’m stuck with Toon now.
Jo Violeta: Oh, really?
Kate Toon: No, I made that up to make you feel better.
Jo Violeta: I’m so gullible.
Kate Toon: Anyway, I’ll include links to all your various bits and bobs in the show notes for the episode. Jo, it’s been fantastic, thank you so much.
Jo Violeta: Thank you for having me, it was an absolute blast.
Kate Toon: So that’s the end of this week’s show. If you have questions about building a personal brand and finding your voice, head to the I Love SEO group on Facebook.
As you know, I like to end the show with a shout out to one of my lovely listeners and this time it’s Biancs61, and she writes, “Informational and inspirational. Kate, first of all, thank you. Your podcast has taught me so much and has been an inspiration for me as I make a career change to one centred around SEO.” Oh, that’s cool. “I’ve listened to most of your episodes more than once. The episodes have served as a way to check my knowledge and add to it. You are fun and serve the information in a humorous way. I really appreciate the way you are yourself and you don’t put yourself in a box. Thank you for teaching me and making me laugh. You are an inspiration.”
Oh, my goodness. That makes me want to actually cry, but I won’t. I shall say thanks to you for listening. If you like the show, please leave a five-star rating and review on iTunes, Stitcher, Spotify, or if you heard the podcast, you will help others find the show, learn more about digital marketing and SEO, and make me smile or cry. And don’t forget to check out the show notes for the episode, the RecipeForSEOSuccess.com, where you can learn more about Jo Violeta and check out links that will have fabulous socials. Really worth checking her out, lots of fun.
Finally, I have a new podcast. Well, not new, revamped. The Kate Toon show is my personal podcast about living life as a misfit entrepreneur. My tips and advice on how to have a happier and more successful business. Until next time, happy SEO’ing.