How to find influencers and make them work for your business.
You might have heard the term influencer marketing.
You might think all it involves is hot girls in bikinis on Instagram clutching your product and charging you $1000 for one insta story.
But it’s a teeny bit more complicated than this.
An enhanced form of relationships marketing Influencer marketing can help boost your brand through the power of personal recommendation, it can get your products in front of new eyeballs, build trust, and ultimately drive conversions.
It can also be a bit flat flop!
In this episode, I chat with highly acclaimed digital marketing expert Jeff Bullas on how to get started in the somewhat scary world of Influencer marketing.
Tune in to learn:
- What influencer marketing actually is
- How influencer marketing works
- How effective influencer marketing can be
- What are the different types of influencers
- What does an influencer actually do
- How much does it cost
- How to contact an influencer
- How to know if your campaign has worked?
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And big thanks to La_kyla for their lovely review.
Jeff Bullas is a digital entrepreneur (JeffBullas.com), author, marketer and international keynote speaker and works with brands to optimize their global digital brand with emerging technologies, content, social media and digital marketing.
His mission: “Inspire and educate people to win at business and life in a digital world”.
He has spent most of his career involved with information technologies, telecommunications and the web.
Since starting his website 10 years ago he has educated and inspired over 30 million people to transform their lives and businesses.
- Featured on Forbes as a “Top 20 Influencer of Chief Marketing Officers” – 2018
- #1 Global Content Marketing Influencer – 2018
- Listed on Forbes as one of the “Top 20 Influencers of CMO’s” – 2017
- Ranked by Apollo Research in the “Top 20 Influencers of Digital Marketers in the USA“
Connect with Jeff
- “Blogging the Smart Way – How to Create and Market a Killer Blog with Social Media”
Kate Toon: You might have heard of the term ‘influencer marketing’. You might think it involves a lot of hot girls in bikinis on Instagram, clutching your product and charging you a $1000 for one Insta story, but it’s a teeny bit more complicated than that. An enhanced form of relationship marketing, influencer marketing can help boost your brand through the power of personal recommendation. Can get your products in front of new eyeballs, build trust, and ultimately drive conversions.
Kate Toon: But it can also be a big, fat flop. In this episode I chat with highly-acclaimed digital marketing expert, Jeff Bullas, on how to get started in the somewhat scary world of influencer marketing.
Kate Toon: Hello, my name’s Kate Toon and I’m the head chef here at the Recipe for SEO Success, an online teaching hub for all things related to search engine optimization, and I love SEO. But as you’ve noticed in the last few areas, we’re expanding our reach to talk about digital marketing in general, and that’s why I’m super excited today. A bit over-excited, I must admit, to be talking to Jeff Bullas. Hello, Jeff.
Jeff Bullas: Hi, Kate. How are you?
Kate Toon: I’m very excited. I’m trying to be calm ’cause I followed Jeff … I think, I don’t know, since I was about six?
Jeff Bullas: And now she’s 19.
Kate Toon: No, not 19. I wish. At the pleasure of me seeing Jeff at the SEMrush Awards and he very kindly volunteered to come on the podcast, so I think I just begged you and here you are. So, this is awesome. Thank you.
Jeff Bullas: Yeah, yeah. Pleasure to be here.
Kate Toon: Awesome. So, I’m just gonna read out your bio, which is very long but we abbreviated it. So, Jeff is a digital entrepreneur at jeffbullas.com. Also marks an international keynote speaker and works with friends to optimise their global digital brands in emerging technologies, content, social media, and digital marketing. His mission is to inspire and educate people to win a business and life in the digital world. He spent most of his career involved in IT, telecommunications in the web, and since starting his website 10 years ago, he has educated and inspired over 30 million people to transform their lives and businesses. He’s achieved some amazing things, featured on Forbes as top 20 influencer in 2018, number one concept marketer, listed on Forbes- oh, I could go on. I’m gonna put all these stats in the episode. It’s just a bit intimidating to be honest, Jeff.
Jeff Bullas: We just made that up, really, to just look good on the resume.
Kate Toon: It does, but unfortunately it’s not made-up because they are related to real things and he’s being humble.
So, Jeff, there are millions of different topics we could’ve talked about, and I put you out in the group – that sounds very odd – and one of things that people were most interested to talk about was influencer marketing. I think it is something that scares the crap out of people.
So, for those listeners who don’t know what it is, what is influencer marketing in simple terms?
Jeff Bullas: My definition is that it enables brands to actually reach their trusted audiences of people that actually who have created their own, global distribution, and whether that’s on YouTube or whether that’s on Instagram or via e-mail or Facebook messenger, and typically a lot of influencers build a brand, where they have this quite a close connection with people that have been reading their content, viewing their content.
So, essentially it’s providing a high-trust source for brands to reach the influencer’s audience. I think there’s a couple of areas, if you just wanted them to steal it, in two areas.
I think there’s a lot of B to Cinfluencing the market, that’s an Instagram sort of stories, more than anything else. Yep. Some of them are I dunno. Lovely look at a woman in a bikini and holding a pina colada or whatever product she’s trying to sell.
Jeff Bullas: On the other hand, that sets more B to C, so then on the other hand, I think there’s a what’s not often talked about as the B to B influencer marketing, which is where you participate an audience typically, biggest sector in it is small to medium businesses.
So, we run influencer campaigns, both to just content in its own, such as sponsored content, through to putting together something that’s much more complicated, more custom. So, it’s been quite interesting to see the rise of inquiry just about these types of services, and we’ve had some real success with some self-efficient, software and service companies. So, influencer marketing, in a nutshell, brands can reach the influencers’ audience and build trust and credibility from that.
Kate Toon: So, it’s kind of piggybacking on existing trust and credibility.
So, you know I like Kate. I follow Kate for ages. I think she has integrity. She’s not gonna recommend something that she doesn’t trust or love, so when she recommends whatever, pina colada or whatever it may be, I can pretty much trust that it’s gonna be good. Like if she likes it, I’m gonna like it.
Jeff Bullas: Yeah. Essentially, that’s how it works.
Kate Toon: Fantastic. And talk me through how the influencer market process works. What does a campaign look like? I know, for one, that I get quite a lot of e-mails from, as you said, softwares and service companies, saying, “Oh, Kate, you know we’re launching this new link marketing tool or this new SEO tool.
Will you talk about it? Will you do a blog post about it?”
And I’m like, “Nah, because I haven’t got the time and nah unless you pay me lots of money.”
But how does it usually work?
Jeff Bullas: So, we got different ways.
Quite off the entry point starts with something like, for example, someone wants to write an educational post, which is, I suppose, education content built around the market segment’s interest. So, in other words it’s basically like an ad tutorial, and that won’t work because we have about 5 million businesses a year to website a blog. So, those articles then will be written in search engines and of course you know what search engines are because that’s your gig, and it means a brand can be receiving, ’cause we got a hard authority website, I think, on our [inaudible 00:06:52], just barely on the 7000 top global search sites in the world. So, it’s basically that’s the entry port, and that basically gives people attention based upon a educational post.
Jeff Bullas: The next step after that is – and there’s another part to that as well – some people want to write product, and we’ll look at it and see if it is, we might be using, we might be not, but we’ll do some reviews, and they bought a link to it.
You get these all the time, I’m sure. “Can you link to our product?” I go, “Yeah, I’m happy to do that. We’ll have to check it out first, but if we’re happy with it we can link to it, and no, you’re not gonna get that for free.” A lot of the people would say, “Can you write a review for us?” and going, “Hang on. You wanting me to give you something and what are you giving me?” It’s gotta be quid pro quo. Yeah.
Kate Toon: Quid pro quo, I was gonna say that. I guess the question that comes to mind in the interview about is the transparency level on that? Like, when you are linking to stuff or writing an educational blog post, in the good, old days of magazines, it would say at the top in very small, light green letters. A tutorial. But I guess a lot of people these days, they’re not sure whether you’re genuinely recommending it or there’s a back handle or do you? I think that can be quite tricky.
Jeff Bullas: It is tricky. On the other hand, people do know influencers are getting paid. Tiger Woods is recommending Nike golf clubs or whatever.
He’s gotta be using them or he likes using them occasionally.
I don’t know. It really depends on the level of users, I suppose, but I still know that influencers are paid in a variety of ways.
Kate Toon: It might be straight payment, or obviously like with affiliate marketing, you might say something like, “Oh, you know, I get a small kickback if you click on these links.”
But some people don’t disclose that, and I think people worry about that a lot, but I guess if you trust the influencer, why does it bother you? Do you know what I mean?
Jeff Bullas: Yeah, exactly. So, we’re not gonna obviously put up and recommend stuff that we don’t believe is actually gonna sell the product, and I get requested basically link to casinos, and they’re very sneaky sometimes with trying to get you to write something about, and I can sneak them in sometimes with them. So, editors need to be on the lookout for those sort of things, but it’s fascinating and it’s evolving, and that’s the whole thing. I think with the last number I heard, it was 348 influencers software service platforms globally now.
Kate Toon: Wow.
Jeff Bullas: So, it’s becoming quite a big industry, and also we’ve certainly noticed the last two years the rising inquiry about it. So, that’s put us into providing a new service last year, which is brands such as Podium, for example, which is a software and service company with about 350 employees in the U.S. that provides Google, [inaudible 00:09:49] search messaging in chat for reviews, and we drive, I think, nearly 700 leads for them by running a mini webinar. So, we put together, “Yeah, it’s a great service.” I put together for them with my team a 9 to 10 minute mini webinar, where we went through the details so people educated how this platform works and the benefits for them, and then we then distributed that to our e-mail list. We had quite a big Facebook messenger list now. We put it out on social.
Jeff Bullas: And the other thing we’re running now, which has been very, very successful, it’s really boosted and amplified, is that we then can run Facebook video ads. Yeah, just 6 to 15 second video ads, which we use the platform shuttlerock disclaimer on the board of shuttlerock. Start up out of a Facebook global partner, and they provide a really great, I suppose, static images and turn them into videos, and that gets really great engagement, especially when we target people who have liked our Facebook page or have hit our website and are mobile. So, we can get some really cost-effective clicks on using that tick on top to really amplify that webinar, and people, of course, have to opt into the webinar to view it.
Jeff Bullas: And that’s just part of what we’re doing. The blog post is part of that, doing an e-book is part of that. We run projects for Insured, the Australian arm about eight months ago. So, and there’s also with the attending competitors with half of their sales force, for example, in San Francisco and written about the conference before what we’re after and then shared on social the conference.
Kate Toon: So, it’s a lot bigger than [inaudible 00:11:35] in a bikini holding up margaritas.
Jeff Bullas: Yeah. Me or any of the team don’t look good in a bikini.
Kate Toon: Try it. It would definitely get some cut for you. But I guess, you know what comes to mind is there are lots of crazy ways that you can influence marketing beyond what people must think just a simple Instagram story, and I guess for someone like you, with such a huge reputation and a popular site, someone working with you’s gonna get great results.
But in general, how affected do you think the influencing marketing is because the feedback I get from the small businesses is they send their product, the Instagrammer or whoever does their thing, and they don’t really get the ROI. So, what I hear from influencers is that very few people even follow up on it and go, “How did that post do?” or whatever.
So, there’s a bit of a disconnect in terms of results.
Jeff Bullas: Yep. Yeah, I think the issue comes down to a lot of people think that the organic reach of an influencer on its own is going to be enough, and a lot of typical influencers don’t have a very powerful website. They don’t have any command authority. Yes, they got 100,000 people on Instagram, for example, but there’s no other ways to distribute it except for organic reach. As we know organic reach is just getting lower and lower.
So, and that’s why we’ve brought in the customising for the B to B type product and service because we know that we can really get real amplification that is piggybacking on the back of organic reach and uses effective technology, for example, to get real results that we can just turn up the dial, spend more money, and get more leads, whereas organics are restricted by…
Jeff Bullas: …I used to get about 22 million basically impressions a month from Twitter. Now, Twitter’s where I’m back at its organic reach. For example, we get about 6 to 7 million impressions three days later. Still good, but nothing like it was. So, I think the reality is a lot of people don’t understand how the tick works and social is really being reduced to pay-to-play, and I think that’s the thing that we are bringing to the table for B to B is, okay. We’ve got e-mail, we’ve got Facebook messenger, we’ve got social, we’ve got Twitter, we’ve got Facebook. Sure, we’re gonna spend on that. We’re gonna put it on our Linkedin as well, the content. But what we’re really gonna do is we’re gonna turn up the dial ’cause we know what generally a pretty good idea of what the clicks [inaudible 00:14:05] will be to registration page. And then we’ll find [inaudible 00:14:08] things such as …
Jeff Bullas: I met one of the partners we worked with. They wanted a mini webinar. We did that, put it up, wrote it, designed it, ran it. And then what happened was they used the landing page from the folk to the webinar platform, the folk landing page, and that effectively gets about half the actual opt-in rate that you get from a lead page is the landing page. The other things we look out for to make sure that the brand’s using the best tech.
Kate Toon: Yeah. So, if we take it back to more of a small business, okay? So, think of someone not like you but like a smaller business that’s thinking they’d like to get involved in influencer marketing and they’ve maybe found someone that they think is a good person to reach out to.
How do they work out what to pay and how do they measure it?
What questions should they be answering as an influencer because, again, in the space I’ve seen, I’ve got several kind of fashion and jewellery brands who are students on my course, and they might reach out to somebody and take a photo of them wearing the ring and then maybe have a little code. “Use hashtag, use this code to get 10% discount”, and then that’s it. That’s as simple as it gets.
What should they be pushing for? What questions should they be asking?
Jeff Bullas: Well, I think one of the first questions we should be asking is what’s your KPR that you want? We typically go back to the business and go, “Do you just want brand awareness? Impressions? Or do you want something more such as opt-ins and leads?”
And to doing leads you’re also generating brand awareness as well, of course. So, the other thing, too, is a lot of people see influencer marketing as just a one-off, and I think that’s a bit of a mistake.
So, we can build both brand awareness as well as to continue to generate leads if you’re willing to put together 3 month, 6 month, or 12 month programme, where we can just … because the thing, too, is you’re not quite sure how it’s really going to work because it’s a different platform, what’s going to be the opt-in rate for this? So, the reality there is that you’re really almost needed to do the first one as a test and then basically let’s optimise it after that.
Jeff Bullas: So, for example, you go to webinar landing page we use, the client wanted to use or was restricted to use, whatever, I don’t know. We knew that we could double their opt-ins. Instead of 700 we’re gonna opt them 1400, right? So, that’s significant. Then on top of that, those opt-ins become ability to reach and continue the conversation with people down the track.
Kate Toon: Do you think the influencer market, everything you’ve talked about so far is more about lead them than direct sales, so getting people on your e-mail list, rather than … Think, again, small businesses kind of go, they sell the product, people buy the product, and that’s quite a hard thing to do for many.
Jeff Bullas: I think the issue is that a lot of businesses expect the influencer to do the selling for them as well, and I think that’s actually the right approach. I think what an influencer can do is give you attention and they can actually help you get leads. Then it’s over to the small business, medium business, to actually then do something with that, and that can be a weakness in a sense in that in a lot of small businesses don’t understand digital, how it works, how you need to nurture through content. So, I think the person’s gonna see it, then they go into actually buying it straight off the bat, and we know that doesn’t generally happen.
Jeff Bullas: So, if you go out and look at Jeff Walker’s Launch programme used by lots of bloggers and websites around the world selling $2000 training platforms and so on, there’s a whole two-week nurturing from the contents, such as free e-books given away, and then they ran a series of webinars and they’re on educational, basically, podcasts, whatever after that. So, essentially, it’s two weeks of intense building trust and credibility. Before asking for the order, you gotta earn the right to get the order. So, a lot of the small businesses don’t understand that process is required online. It’s required offline. Okay? You don’t walk in someone’s office going, “Buy my stuff” and expect them to sign up then and there. The online world, in a sense, is just a different medium to do the same thing that in the offline world. The process is the same. It’s just using a different way to reach them.
Kate Toon: I think that’s such an important point, and I think the fact that people expect that quick sell is just not gonna happen, especially as you mentioned that the one-off exercise. I think more and more are moving into the microinfluencer space in my world, where you build a relationship and it might run over a couple of months and you might do as you said in a number of different tactics across a number of different channels, but it’s a consistent that influencers talking about your brand again and again, rather than just once without the rithms it might never be seen. But do you think that influencer must be suitable for all types of business, or are there some that it works better for than others?
Jeff Bullas: I think it can work for most businesses. I think it’s just the tactics that you need to employ are going to vary. We don’t do much in the B to C, like how effective it is in Instagram story and selling a bikini or a hat or sunscreen or whatever. So, the reality on that is depends on what your KPRs are and then it depends on are you prepared to make an investment, and what’s really important in this is testing and some small to medium businesses go off and might do that. Others do let’s do a one-off and hope it works.
Kate Toon: And I think a lot of small businesses are more comfortable with things like AdWords and paid advertisements ’cause you pay your money, you get your click, and it is, you have to experiment. Just like SEO, there’s no guarantee, so it’s [inaudible 00:20:24], and like PR, I would say. PR, you know you might release that press release and it might not get picked up by anybody. Sometimes you have to experiment.
Jeff Bullas: And persistence. You gotta play a long game. There’s a great quote by Bill Gates, saying, “A lot of people have risked what they can do in 12 months but underestimate what they can do in 10 years”, and the reality is it applies right across the board. For example, just in the search engine SEO space, we invested quite a lot of money and time and effort to work on that technical SEO and pillar content. What is it now, two years ago, we started the project. We worked on it for about six to nine months and not seeing any real results ’cause it takes time to earn authority. Almost any distribution, whether it’s organic search or whether it’s communicating with a customer and building that up over time and earning that authority.
Jeff Bullas: And today we’ve generated another 1 1/2 million annual visitors through organic search, and yet for 12 months we hadn’t saw any change. And I think a lot of businesses aren’t prepared to play the long game. They want quick fix, quick results, and not prepared to invest. The thing about digital marketing is it’s a long game and basically you gotta be prepared to invest in it. So, essentially building distribution is not done overnight.
Building trust, not done overnight. Search engine optimization, building organic traffic, and then you gotta be prepared for the bumps as Google keeps changing the rules and Facebook keeps changing the rules and its algorithms. So, I really recommend anyone they gotta look beyond quick fixes and really look at playing a long game. As long as they are aware they need to take certain steps, and an influencer, I think …
Jeff Bullas: There’s also two other types of influencers – influencers that get digital marketing and influencers that don’t get digital marketing. They’re the ones that are instafamous and that’s great, but beyond appearing on a bench holding a pina colada, it’s about their skill set. So, I think there’s a lot of difference in those two.
Kate Toon: Yeah. So, I mean, if we’re talking small businesses, it’s talking to the influencer about what they can do beyond the obvious, what can they bring to the table. Do they have an e-mail list?
Are they willing to make some videos?
Are they willing to talk about it on multiple channels over a series of time? Yes, the first campaign will be an experiment but then look at those results and look at what worked and didn’t and try again and try again. I think persistence is so important.
Same for me. Like this podcast now is getting 10,000 downloads a month and now I can be honest and say I’m a influencer because is Ahrefs is sponsoring the pod and that’s amazing.
But it’s not the just the podcast. I offer them other things, mention them in my Facebook group, e-mails, it’s the whole lipstick thing, and they didn’t come in for one episode.
If we’ve decided we’re gonna take the risk and we’re gonna invest it with money and we’re gonna give it some time to mature and look at the results, how do we go about contacting an influencer because like you, I get dozens of e-mails and most of them I delete straight away. How do we go about nurturing that relationship with the influencer so that we are ready to use them they are willing to listen?
Jeff Bullas: I think one of the biggest issues a lot of brands have think that the influencers are gonna give them attention for free. The e-mails you would get and I get as well are, “Oh, we got a fantastic product. You should write a review about it” and link to them going, “Yeah. Why?” And yet this, I would get four or five of these a day, and I’m just going, “This is not how humans work. This is not how business works” So, at any rate it’s fascinating to watch that.
Kate Toon: I think it’s that and the other thing that I get, especially if it’s a physical product or a software, people go, “Oh, we’ll give you a free access to it” or “I’ll give you the thing” and it’s like, “I don’t need the thing. If I wanted it, I would go and buy the thing, but you giving me your $50 coffee cup and asking me to promote it and write about it, why would I waste all that time? It’s gonna take me this amount of time. I can just go and buy the coffee cup.” I think that’s kind of insulting the influencer’s intelligence. It’s not a great start.
Jeff Bullas: Well, you think about it. If you say, “We’ll give you free access to our platform, isn’t that lovely?” and I’m going, “No, it’s an obligation”. It’s essentially a time stack. So, to learn typically any softwares service, platform, it’s gonna take days. Like, really? And yet this happens all the time. “We’ll give you free access.” It’s a fascinating world, genuinely.
Kate Toon: Yeah. So, I think it’s about maybe going to the influencer with a budget in mind of what you’re maybe willing to risk or invest and say, “We have X amount to spend. What could you do for that maybe?” That’s maybe a starting point. And from an influencer’s point of view, if you feel that you’re beginning to get a bit of a voice and, again, we’re not necessarily talking about on your scale but maybe my scale, when you do have an audience, maybe it’s not huge but you have a following, do you think it’s worth putting together kind of a package or some kind of thoughts that you can then send out to people?
Jeff Bullas: To influencers?
Kate Toon: No. So, if you are the influencer and you would like to get people to come to you, flipping it over to just sit there and hope that people will notice you or do you think you can actively pursue?
Jeff Bullas: I think you can build what we’re doing at the moment, build it out of sales, funnel basically for that and for our new service, which we rolled out six months ago. We’re gonna do a mini webinar around that, which will be in Evergreen, which will then educate people on what we do and how influencer marketing works and some basic tactics on how to do it. I think people need to understand how influencer marketing works, especially B to B because B to B influencer marketing services is not as sexy as B to C. Instafamous gets a lot of attention with mass media. B to B’s like the black box that no one really talks about.
Jeff Bullas: And also the other thing I think’s gonna be interesting to watch on our next little while is as Facebook and Google continue to push up the price of their ads, the cost of Legion through Paid is gonna get more expensive, whereas an influencer typically can get a lot lower conversion rate cost or better conversion then because of the actual optimization done by sending it out to … Facebook are targeting people that liked your Facebook page, so it’s seeing you before you’ve already created trust. So, I think you can create by putting out there and creating a sales funnel, and we’re actually in the middle of doing that as well as letting people know it’s a real site. We’ve got two terms, which actually educate people on that. We have a contact form dedicated to that as well. So, we get a lot of traffic. We get half a million visitors a month, so that drives a lot of attention organically, and that’s what’s really nice is to have that organic traffic as well. But on top of that, we can really turn up the dial with the Facebook ads.
Kate Toon: Yeah. I think you might be listening to this and thinking, “Well, I’m not Jeff Bullas. This is not gonna work for me”. But don’t underestimate the power of microinfluencers, especially if you’re very niche. So, if for example, there are lots of huge business podcasts that have hundreds of thousands of listeners, but they talk about a zillion topics. But if you have a very niche podcast that only talks about kittens and you have 2000 listeners who are prime kitten audiences, well then you are gonna be the perfect outlet for that kitten brand because that’s all you talk about and [inaudible 00:28:39], so yes, you might not be earning the millions of dollars, but it’s not necessarily passive income, clearly, ’cause there’s a lot of work to do. So, I think the influencers as well shouldn’t underestimate the work involved. [crosstalk 00:28:51] A lot of influencers just go, “I’ll do a post” and that’s it.
Jeff Bullas: Building sales funnel and writing copies and getting copies, it’s quite a lot of work. And microniches are very important because I build incredibly loyal audiences.
Kate Toon: Yeah. Sometime you don’t have to go off to the big names, and I think that’s another mistake small businesses make, is they go off to the super famous person, rather than spending the time drilling down to find out up-and-coming person, and the person that might benefit as much from the relationship is for the brand association as you do from the influencer association. So, the influencer’s proud to say, “We’re being sponsored blah-de-blah.” They’re actually proud to talk about it. They’re not only just doing it for the bucks. A bit more loving, I think.
Kate Toon: I guess at the end of it, you’ve kinda covered this, but just to be clear. How do you know if your campaign has worked? Beyond, I guess, just the “We got 2000 leads”. Are there any key metrics that you need to look out to see if your campaign has worked?
Jeff Bullas: Well, depends on what your KPRs are. So, if you’re saying, “I wanted leads”, then the other test is how many sales do you get. So, that might take a little while to filter through the system. So, again, it’s playing a long game.
Kate Toon: And I think the brand awareness one is the hardest because obviously if that’s what you’re going after, it’s the hardest to measure. So, perhaps that might be a starting point, you just want to get your name out there, but tying it back to that lead gen I think is the key message.
Kate Toon: Well, look, Jeff. That was amazing. Thank you so much for your time. So useful. We’ll include links. Jeff wrote an excellent article about to create and market a killer blog. We got various other things in our shownotes, so do head to the shownotes to find out more about that and find out a little bit more about Jeff and check out his wonderful sites. So, look, at the end of the episode, as you know we like to give a shout-out to one of our lovely listeners, and this one is Lakailah. She says, “Thanks. This is a no-thrills, no BS version of How to Do Digital Marketing SEO. The proof is in the pudding. Want to succeed with SEO, then look no further than Kate. Can talk to you through everything you need to know, no secret ingredients left out, no overcooking. The recipe will work for you every time.” Lakailah, you’ve written me an ad there. That’s awesome. I’ll use that. Thanks for the free copy.
Kate Toon: And thanks to you for listening. Don’t forget to leave a five-star rating and review on iTunes, Stitcher, and now Spotify. Yes, we’re on Spotify, too. Your review will others find the show and learn more about digital marketing and the lovely world of search engine optimization. Don’t forget to check out the shownotes on therecipeforseosuccess.com, where you can learn more about influencer marketing, and don’t forget to tune to my two other podcasts, The Hot Copy Podcast, a Podcast for Copywriters and The Confessions of a Misfit Entrepreneur. So, thanks again, Jeff.
Jeff Bullas: Okay. It’s been a pleasure, Kate, and look forward to bump into you in the corridors of another conference or wherever.
Kate Toon: Yes, I hope so, too. Until next time, happy SEOing.