Posting on platforms with purpose
For the last few years, we’ve all been a bit single-minded.
Google, Google, Google.
And that makes sense, Google’s market share has consistently been around 90-95% globally, but it’s slipping.
And platforms like ChatGPT come along and blow everything out of the water, perhaps it’s time we got a little bit more search-agnostic.
Not sure what I mean? In this episode, we’ll explain all.
Tune in to learn:
- What search agnosticism is
- What sites and social platforms are now used as search engines
- Why writing for humans first, search engines second is key
- How to decide what content works best for each platform
- How search agnosticism changes the way you write and do keyword research
- How to be more strategic with your content
- Jessica’s top tips for being more search agnostic
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About Jessica Goode
Jess sits squarely between content and SEO, bridging the two worlds to create strategic and memorable digital executions. She’s worked as Head of Content and Head of SEO within a range of esteemed agencies, cobbling together an impressive portfolio of past clients like Flight Centre, Myer, Snooze, mycar, Open Universities, and more. Today, Jess owns and manages her own business, where she offers services that go beyond simple SEO consulting, including intent-based strategies and search psychology. She’s also really bad at promoting her own social media, but like any ADHD kid, she promises to get better!
Fun fact: Jess wrote a book when she was 17 – unfortunately, no characters survived the closing pages, and she hasn’t finished a novel since.
Transcript
Kate Toon: For the last few years, we’ve all been a bit single-minded. Google, Google, Google. And that makes sense, of course, because Google’s market share has consistently been around 90-95% globally, but it’s slipping. And platforms like ChatGPT come along and blowing everything out of the water. Well, perhaps it’s time we got a little bit more search agnostic. Not sure what I mean? Don’t worry. In this episode, we’ll explain all.
Hello, my name is Kate Toon and I’m the head chef at the Recipe for SEO Success, an online teaching hub for all things related to search engine optimization and digital marketing. And today I’m talking with Jessica Goode. Hello Jessica.
Jessica Goode: Hi, Kate.
Kate Toon: Hello. So let me tell you who Jess is. Jess sits squarely, not circley, between content and SEO building, bridging the two worlds to create strategic and memorable digital executions.
She works as head of content and head of SEO with a range of esteemed agencies, cobbling together an impressive portfolio of past clients like Flight Centre, Meyer, Snooze, Mycar, Open Universities, and more. Today, Jess owns and manages her own business, woo-hoo, where she offers services that go beyond simple SEO consultant, including intent-based strategies and search psychology. She’s also really bad at promoting her own social media. But like any ADHD kid, she promises to get better Now fun fact, Jess wrote a book when she was 17. Unfortunately, no character survived the closing pages, and she hasn’t finished a novel since. So what was that book called?
Jessica Goode: It was untitled.
Kate Toon: Untitled. Okay.
Jessica Goode: Yeah.
Kate Toon: Do you have plan plans to resurrect it?
Jessica Goode: No. I only have one copy. It’s printed. It’s a printed copy. I do not have the digital file anymore. It is single-spaced, Times New Roman, and 12. So it will never be published. It’ll probably never be read by anyone but me.
Kate Toon: Who knows, because I, look, when I was little, like that was all, my whole life has been about trying to write a novel.
I’ve got about 32 started unfinished novels, but then recently I bought a bookshop. So now I can actually start my own book in my own bookshop. So I’m determined to finish my book. That’s my goal for next year. So, yeah. We’ll get there. Jess. Who knows? Who knows?
Jessica Goode: We will, we will.
Kate Toon: Well, you know, SEO is a bit of a funny story these days. Just, beautiful segue there. and we were talking at the beginning about what Search agnosticism is. I love the term, but it’s not one that I’ve really used. But I, I agree with you. I mean, it’s even something I speak in, talk about in my course. But generally, if you make your site appealing to Google, if you tick the boxes that Google is looking for, if you please the Google Beast, you’re generally gonna please everybody else, you know.
Google has massive market share, especially here in Australia, but globally, you know, Bing, Yahoo, whatever, whatever. Right? So generally the whole industry has been focused on Google, Google, Google. But you think we need to change that. So explain to me what Search Agnosticism is?
Jessica Goode: It’s essentially breaking down silos in our definition of what search engine opt, like search marketing I should say, is ’cause we say search engine optimizations, like what the hell does that actually mean?
We are surrounded by search engines every day. We have Instagram, that’s a search engine, Reddit’s a search engine, LinkedIn, it’s a search engine. They are all governed by algorithms. So anything that has an algorithm is a search engine. So it’s becoming a little bit more aware of how, but a, talking about search, but also thinking about search.
‘Cause like at the end of the day, it’s all about what is relevant to your audience and to develop strategies that actually harness all those different ways that people think and all. Different ways that they search in all these different places, and there’s so many different potential intersections between these different areas that we can have a lot of fun with. And it can definitely benefit a business, I think.
Kate Toon: Yeah, I agree with you. I mean. For those who are very new to SEO and search, a search engine essentially is just a spider or a bot that crawls around gathering information. An algorithm, which is just a really long, complex piece of code that interprets data.
And then our results page, as you said, LinkedIn, Facebook, they’re all search engines, not very good search engines, but they all have an ability to enter a term, have results, run through a database and present it back to you in an ordered form. And how that form order is decided is based on the algorithm.
What they prioritize is important, and obviously each platform has different priorities, so. Do you ascribe to the idea that if we make things work for Google, they will work for most things? So, you know, I saw a post recently from the Google beast themselves shared by, you know, search engine forum saying that, you know, you don’t need to optimize your content differently for ChatGTP than Google. Do you ascribe to that or do you disagree?
Jessica Goode: I think they say that because ChatGPT actually scrapes data directly from Google, so that, that is why they say that. But I sub, I am more ascribed to the idea that we should optimize for people, and if we’re optimizing for people first, we are naturally, inherently going to optimize for search engines and like Google.
So yeah, we do still have to continue to please the Google gods unfortunately. There’s a degree of that, but we have to become a little bit more conscious in the way that we’re, I guess, connecting the purpose of our content with like how we are servicing those different almost like SEO touch points.
Kate Toon: Yeah, I mean obviously Google’s simply trying to emulate the human experience. So-
Jessica Goode: Yeah.
Kate Toon: It’s trying, when we please humans, we please Google, but that’s a very sort of simplistic way of looking at what do you mean about optimizing for purpose? What do you mean by that?
Jessica Goode: Well, when you think about it, intent’s all about purpose, right?
So every page has a purpose that it’s trying to fulfill. And when people use search terms, they’re communicating their purpose to that search engine. So like search terms or keywords, they’re the language of the internet. That people use these words to describe what they need or what they want or how they feel, and they’re trusting these algorithms to connect them with the right pages to fulfill that need.
So if we’re thinking about the way content is connecting with keywords, and also intent at the end of the day, if we’re connecting that in a way that services that intent, we should get to a place where SEO is more human centred opposed to algorithm centred.
Kate Toon: Let’s just break that down a little bit more for, for small business owners.
For in terms of intent, we’re talking about does the term have commercial intent, informational intent, investigational intent, navigational intent, brand intent. You know, we’re not just putting in blue shoes, we’re putting in by blue shoes. We’re putting in, you know, latest blue shoes. We’re putting best blue shoes to try and find out the intent.
So do you think that we really don’t need to worry about keywords at all anymore? Or are we just trying to weave intent into our keywords? You know, if you are working with an accountant. Talking about search agnosticism, what does it mean in literal terms? How does it change the way they write? How does it change the way they do their keyword research?
Jessica Goode: I guess like, I think it’s both, right? So like, as I said, like language is an extension of someone’s purpose and they’re using those terms to get to X or Y or even like to communicate like feelings. So search serves those different functions and goals and what is the underlying, that’s the underlying mission of intent to understand how those goals and functions connect with your page and to connect their purpose with yours.
But my, I guess, interpretation of intent goes beyond those navigational transactional definitions. We use those definitions in keyword research tools to, you know, categorize. But to bring it all together and to lean it more into search agnosticism, like there’s definitely room to start thinking about the whole page experience instead of a checklist like approach to SEO.
So I’ve optimized my meta title and my meta description, my H1 and my H2 and body copy. But you know. Then I’ve selected queries that, you know, have a really good volume and they have a decent keyword difficulty, and I feel like kind I can achieve it, but that keyword actually isn’t truly aligned with the purpose of the page.
Like, it’s like say if I’m like, I’m an accountant and I’m talking about, you know, BAS services and then I try to optimize that page for, you know, like financial consulting, as a secondary. That page has nothing to do with financial consulting. It’s about BAS services. And sure there is, you know that there’s an opportunity to internally link to your financial consulting page, but that’s not the core being or that page, so you shouldn’t be optimizing that page around that term.
So it’s just making sure the queries that you’re identifying actually align with what you’re trying to do or what that content’s trying to say on that page.
Kate Toon: Okay. So do you think that intent stays the same across multiple channels, or do you think we need to be doing, you know, different activities on different channels with different types of content? Can you be consistent across all channels, or do you need to really tailor it for each one?
Jessica Goode: I think the philosophy definitely stays the same across multiple channels. ’cause really at the end of the day, it’s a human, it’s a psychology thing, not an SEO thing. Like purpose is us, is what we need. But I think the way that we meet intent can definitely vary depending on a few things.
So if I’m looking for a Roomba, because I definitely need one, if you look at my carpets right now, I’m in need of the electronic vacuum. So my fundamental need is stable. Like I don’t want to clean my floors anymore. So whether I’m searching for on Instagram or TikTok or Google or ChatGPT or YouTube, my need remains the same.
But the differences come down to the content types on those platforms. So I would use Google to look for comparison websites or like you know, long form articles or long form reviews that go across like, you know, the benefit statements or what, you know, the drawbacks of that model or different models. And then I’m using Product Review and Trustpilot to see what the, you know, the general sentiment out there is and trying to look at negative and positive reviews to get like a middle ground reflection, hopefully.
On YouTube, I’m looking at longer form video content to go, okay, you know, maybe there’s some experiential stuff that I wanna look at, like I’m boxing in first impressions and maybe some first use content to see what I might be in for when I open up the box and go, oh, I’m gonna use it for the first time.
And then on TikTok, you know, there’s some snappy opinions and user generated reactions, like Perfect for when I’m doom sprawling. So it really depends.
Kate Toon: Yeah. Okay, fantastic. So moving back to websites, how does a time and budget-poor brand really make sure they’re making the most out of their content and using SAO in this weird post AI world that we live in?
Jessica Goode: So like, start by figuring out which pages actually matter most. I think, you know, the ones that bring in the most traffic, they convert, they set up bigger wins down the track. They, you know, they bring the website almost full circle. And then like, you know, make sure that you are laser focused on the right keywords and the intent or the thought process behind them.
And when I say intent, again, I’m not just talking about those classifications. I’m like, go into the SERP and see how it’s being treated, like, see what, go to the, you know, the top three, top five results and see what kind of content’s being rewarded. Then, you know, use tools like ChatPT, ChatGPT, sorry, to see how it’s being treated there, and check the citations.
So every, like every ChatGPT result has a citation list. Go into those citations, see if they’re the same as Google. Sometimes they will be, sometimes they won’t be. And seeing how, and check how that content’s being, you know, rewarded and develop a, you know, a on page sort of experience that meets all these different needs.
Kate Toon: Yeah. So I mean. I think it’s not dramatically different to what we’ve always done. We’ve always kind of come up with our idea of what we wanna write about, gone out, you know, whatever tools you’re using, all very well and good, but there’s nothing like actually going out and Googling it and seeing what’s competing and what’s already there.
You know? Is the content actually relevant or is it just the best thing Google could find? Is it interesting? Is it engaging? Is it a substantive quality? Does it have facts and stats? But I like the idea of them looking in ChatGPT and seeing what sources have been used to give that answer. Why have they been given ’em?
And you know, in the early days, I know ChatGPT was obsessed with like the World Health Organization. So anything to do with health, it would always cite something from the World Health Organization. But it’s getting better and better and it’s universe of citation sources is getting broader.
So I like the idea of looking at what those sources are and then going and looking at that content and if it’s different to what’s on Google, seeing why they have been rewarded, why did that article get picked to be a source? Because I think obviously ChatGPT is almost more selective than Google. It has fewer options and it’s still going to quite old school sources.
So it’s all, you know, often it’s Wikipedia and things like that, but yeah. Interesting, interesting. Okay, so you know, we’re talking about being search agnostic and what you’re trying to encourage people to do is stop just thinking about Google, but instead think about people’s purpose, the platform, they wanna fulfill that purpose on and tailoring your content to that platform.
Have I got that right? Have I summarized what you said? Right.
Jessica Goode: Perfect.
Kate Toon: Okay, good. So if I am, if I’m listening to this and I’m like, I get it, I’ve gotta stop being so obsessed with Google, but I have this piece of content that I want to put out. What are like the first three things I can do today to make sure that I am considering platform, purpose and being a bit more open-minded. What are three things I could think about today?
Jessica Goode: Oh, that’s really, really, really good question. Your content fundamentals still apply, so as you said, like nothing’s like, it almost sounds the same of what we’ve always done. Like I think we’ve come to a place where we’re obsessed with reinventing the wheel and new shiny things happen and we’re like, oh, dangerous.
But like if we step back. Is still the same content fundamentals, make sure that you know your content pillars or like, you know, your key pieces of content are still really strong. Go into those as we’re saying, go into those citations in those search engine result pages and seeing how those pieces of content is treated and make some changes based on what you see.
It’s not about copying people, it’s about assessing your competition and going, Hey. This is what I can do differently.
Kate Toon: I think that’s it, and I think it’s about assessing whether the piece of content you’re about to produce actually needs to exist. We already know that Google is indexing less and less, showing less and less content in the SERPs.
We already know that with AI summaries and ChatGPT, some articles are so, some topics are so well trodden that unless you can bring a new idea, a new experience or a new authority to that idea-content, there is no point publishing it. So you’ve really, it. It’s about using these new AI tools to say, and looking across the board say, should I be publishing this piece of content?
And perhaps maybe, with your agnostic idea, this is what I’m thinking is, yes, maybe that is a great piece of content, but maybe it’s not for search engines. Maybe that piece of content is better for a TikTok. Maybe it’s better for a LinkedIn post. You know, maybe search is not the right place ’cause search has covered that off to death.
But you can find a way to present that in a different format. I get it. Light bulb moment. So same content, same approach, but really taking the time to see if there are other platforms that might serve you better than just always trying to serve up stuff for the Google gods.
Jessica Goode: A hundred percent. We need to like stop worshipping at that altar a little bit, like a little bit less religiously.
Kate Toon: Fewer offerings to them. Fewer offerings.
Jessica Goode: Exactly. Like, you know, they’ve become greedy. They’ve become almost like glutted of how many offerings we give them. So we, we just need to be a little bit more strategic and go, oh, you know, may, as you’re saying, maybe this belongs on TikTok. You don’t need to rank for every piece of content.
Kate Toon: No, that’s exactly it. It’s got also about where it is in your conversion path and brand awareness. And I think, you know, that we all almost got to the point where Google] was the internet. You know, that was it. And I think we’re stepping away from that. And other plan platforms are rising up to be equals and now Google isn’t the internet and people are finding brands and businesses circumventing Google all together.
And I think that’s what’s making Google terrified. So I love it. Keep them on their toes. Well, thank you so much Jess, for coming on the podcast today. Where can we find out more about you and your business?
Jessica Goode: You can just find me on LinkedIn at the moment. I do not have a website live yet, just going back to being an ADHD kid. Just having all the best intentions in the world and not making it happen just yet. So LinkedIn is definitely somewhere you can find me.
Kate Toon: I think that’s a perfect example of search agnosticism. You’re on the platform where you’re gonna make money, not necessarily building a website that may or may not get found. So I love that you’re embodying your message
Jessica Goode: That’s definitely gonna be my story from now on. I don’t need a website ’cause I’m agnostic.
Kate Toon: There you go. I’ve just justified your brand. Reverse justification is the core of good advertising. Thank you very much Jess, and thanks to everyone for listening.
So there you go. That’s the end of this week’s episode. Quite a sort of difficult to grasp concept. I feel like I got it in the end. I guess it’s just about, you know, not making Google too much of your God while also accepting that Google still has to be your God. That’s difficult. Anyway, I hope you enjoyed the show.
If you did, please let me know. I’d love a review, or you can head to my group, the I LOVE SEO group to tell me what you thought ,and until next time, happy SEOing.
